Is Joss Whedon a one trick pony?

POSTED BY: AngusThermopyle
UPDATED: Sunday, March 26, 2006 18:03
VIEWED: 16194
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FIREFLY001

Friday, March 24, 2006 8:16 PM

He uses the same trick because so few others will. Regardless of what anyone says - there just haven't been many well written strong female characters. There have been more lately - but still not as many as for males.

LEGOLAD

Friday, March 24, 2006 9:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
What is the obsession about teenage girls, skinny teenage girls (almost pubescent, you might say) and violence? It was a shame that he had to make River into Buffy in Serenity. [...]

When I’ve seen JW giving interviews, it is quite apparent that he does have a penchant for self-import indulgent lyricism. He does like to go on about metaphors etc. Let’s be pragmatic here. They’re just martial arts/horror/sci-fi TV shows. Fun as they are. It isn’t Mervyn Peake or Shakespeare.

Okay, it's a valid point. Have you listened to his commentary for Serenity (highly entertaining, by the way)? He aknowledges his obsession with superpowered teenage girls (which will be continued in Wonder Woman, obviously), and says he doesn't care. Personally, neither do I. I'd only have a problem with it if I thought his work was bad or at least made worse as a result.

You mentioned Shakespeare. All of his plays were full of the same stock elements; it was what he did with those elements that was exceptional. Same with Joss.

Oh, and Mervyn Peake; nice! Love the Gormenghast books (miniseries was really bad, though).

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The other thing that was disappointing and took away a lot of Firefly’s originality was the fact that space wasn’t silent anymore. I really like that about Firefly. I feel it gave it an edge and a loneliness.

Oh and one or two things I just have to mention from Firefly: In the episode Shindig, Sir what’shisface went on about his sash saying it denoted lord-hood. I think that would be knighthood. A lord is a lord and a sir is a knight and I’ll move to queen bish 3. The other thing (which is in most of his series) is that all the good guys are Americans and the baddies are British, apart from one East European. With all JW’s talk about the future being about two superpowers: US and China (unlikely, I think); how come all the crew are American and Chinese people only seem to be in the background, selling from market stalls or walking by? One last thing: Why does he get so many Americans to play Britons? They can’t do it.

Okay... silence in space: yeah, that was one of my favourite details about the show, and I was a little disappointed they cheated so much to make the movie 'louder.' I still say a silent space battle would be cool -- the contrast between the silent exterior shots and the sudden noise and chaos whenever you switched to inside a ship. Ah, well.

As for British characters always being villains played by not-so-British actors... um... Giles? Anyone?

But regarding the whole lack of Asian characters in the 'verse, yeah, that struck me as unfair, too. It's hilarious; Firefly had such an ethnically diverse cast, and one of my biggest complaints would still be that too many of the crew were white (6 out of 9). We sure have high standards for Joss, don't we?

"We need a hood ornament."

SERYN

Friday, March 24, 2006 9:58 PM

Yup, there is a sad lack of 'real' female action figures, up until Whedon they were pretty much one dimensional pin ups (ahem, 'one trick ponys')

The neat thing about Joss is he starts with the character in everything, then adds in the 'superhuman' stuff. In Firefly he was already developing Rivers powers (end of War Stories, the three guys dead with her eyes closed) then jumping back into explaining her mindset (Objects in Space)
If he'd had another season or two her progression from fragile teen to super-weapon would have been gradual, and all within the character.
But he didn't get those seasons, so everything got bumped up and for some it jarred a little.

But one thing I wanted to pick up on -misogynistic characters in his work, where?

As far as I can remember, non of his male characters bear those tendencies - Giles, Xander, Wesley, Angel, Gunn, Mal, Simon, Wash -all of them treat women with equality and respect, they are surrounded by strong women and non of them ever had issues. Spike could fall into the category briefly, but his wasn't a woman hating obsession, it was a Buffy love/hate obsession, which is a little different. If you're thinking of Jayne, sure he's a commitment-avoiding, whorin' alpha male, but never anywhere is he a woman hater, he loves women, he's not even a womaniser, he never plays them, all his encounters are open and honest, and in his own way he treats them with as much respect as he's able (brushing that girls hair, his love and support of his mom, his protectiveness of Kaylee). Even Niska seemed to respect Zoe for who she was, probably loves his wife (even if he does kill her relatives) and tortures everyone equally (i'm just assuming here)
About the only misogynist I can think of was the bad guy from Heart of Gold, and hey, look, he's the bad guy.

But I'm genuinly interested in you reasons, so...

**********************************************************
Hodgins: Your robot reminds me of you. You tell it to turn it stops. You tell it to stop it turns. You ask it to take out the garbage it watches reruns of Firefly.

ZEEK

Friday, March 24, 2006 10:01 PM

I agree. I think the only reason he keeps going back to that theme is because there aren't enough strong female roles out there in films today.

It's not his only trick though. There wasn't really a Buffy type character all through Firefly. River was only a weapon for a couple seconds in War Stories. Other than that she was the damsel in distress.

Angel was all about the badass guy fighter who is searching for redemption. There were some strong women who came and went through the course of the show, but they weren't the focus.

Point is I don't think Joss is obsessed. He just portrays strong females really well. So, he stands out.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:00 AM

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Originally posted by reaverman:
Quote:
With all JW’s talk about the future being about two superpowers: US and China (unlikely, I think);

Not to nitpick or anything, but if you look at the state of the world today, China is an industrial superpower. They make just about everything for everyone (exactly how the U.S. became an important world player). As for military might, their fighting forces number 20,000,000 (with an additional 20,000,000 in "public service brigades" that do jobs like repairing roads and maintaining the country; while not as rigorously trained as the main fighting arm of the military, are ready to fight on short notice). The total U.S. Military strength (including intel analysts, desk pilots, etc... that dont do much actual fighting) numbers 2,500,000- 3,000,000. Three quarters of that is scattered around the globe and in no position to mount a cohesive action quickly. Another thing is, people think of China as primitive and backward, but in most feilds, they are only a couple of years behind the U.S. That's one of the benefits of manufacturing electronics for the most advanced nations in the world. The fact is, China's already a superpower. Most folks just dont want to admit it.

"We're gonna explode? I don' wanna explode!"

I totally agree. China most certainly is a superpower and is growing extremely rapidly. My point was that I don't think the US will be (which I didn't make). And the fact that Chinese people are only on the perifory of the series and movie. There is no central character, only background.

I don't think the US will remain a superpower. I'm not going to explain my reasons for thinking this, as Americans tend to get snippy when you critcise them etc.

www.ChAoS-ImAgErY.com

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GORRAMREEVER:
I believe somewhere in the commentary for buffy (season 1 ep. 1?) Joss actually makes a point to say that is where buffy orignated from. He always wanted to see your "typical damsel in distress" turn around and kick her attacker in the nuts, instead of crying or running away she becomes a strong female hero. _Not a direct quote, but you get the idea_

Well, that's all fine and dandy; but you write about that then go on to other things, right?

www.ChAoS-ImAgErY.com

CHARMUSE

Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:06 AM

Just me personally, but my feeling is Joss loves women. He empowers them, and he believes in love. It is as simple as that.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:16 AM

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Originally posted by spikeandjezebel:
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The other thing (which is in most of his series) is that all the good guys are Americans and the baddies are British...

I can't vouch for the accents as I'm American, but I'm pretty sure that one would count Giles and Wesley as good guys in Joss shows. I think Spike in the last seasons of Buffy and Angel would be considered one of the good guys too.

"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon

Yes, they certainly are good guys. But they are also both extremely self-conscious bookworms (certainly to begin with). The hero always has to be American, even in historical movies. Example: The great escape )only 3 Americans were involved in the escape out of 600. The rest were British and Canadian. When you watch any modern WWII movie, you'd think the British weren't involved. In Stephen Speilburgs Band Of Brothers epic series, most of the leads are played by British, but the only times that the British are seen is when British Paras need rescuing during Marketgarden and a few British tanks who have clueless commanders.

Also, when Easy Company are back in England and one of the seargants goes to get his laundry from an English housewife, she is portrayed as unfeeling and moneygrabbing, when she doesn't show "respect" for the seargant. It's understandable, the British had been fighting for four years before the US were forced into getting involved.

Also, Britain hasn't had warm beer since before refrdgerators. And our teeth are no worse than anyone elses. Getting to see an NHS dentist could take up the rest of your working life, however. Thanks for that Maggie...

www.ChAoS-ImAgErY.com

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:26 AM

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:27 AM

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Oh, and Mervyn Peake; nice! Love the Gormenghast books (miniseries was really bad, though).

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed with the BBC series. I think the dialogue was excellent. I mean Flay was really Flay. But I didn't go for the overall visual feel. I can see what they were doing, knowing that Peake grew up in China... But, I don't think a movie or TV series could ever do it justice. Peake was such an amazing writer. I've never read that amount of stunning description by any other writer. Quite breathtaking.

Quote:

Okay... silence in space: yeah, that was one of my favourite details about the show, and I was a little disappointed they cheated so much to make the movie 'louder.' I still say a silent space battle would be cool -- the contrast between the silent exterior shots and the sudden noise and chaos whenever you switched to inside a ship. Ah, well.

As for British characters always being villains played by not-so-British actors... um... Giles? Anyone?

[BOLD]Again, bookworm, self-concious, awkward, sends others out to fight.[/BOLD]

www.ChAoS-ImAgErY.com

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