Firefly as a New Tribal Enterprise

POSTED BY: SergeantX
UPDATED: Thursday, October 16, 2003 05:27
VIEWED: 11276
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SERGEANTX

Tuesday, October 14, 2003 1:36 PM

Hey Archer, thanks for responding. You know how much I'd love to hear your take on this topic. Unfortunately I'm too obtuse and this format too limiting for me to adequately reproduce the perspective presented in the book. If you do get time to read one his books I'd love to discuss it with you. I kind of lost interest in this thread when it devolved into yet another prefabricated libertarian/statist argument. Not to knock those, I've instigated plenty and you know my position, just interested in other things.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

FRANCO

Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
A consistent theme of these books is the idea that agricultural, community based civilization is fundamentally flawed, setting man up as forever in conflict with all other life forms and in a sense himself. He offers as an alternative a return to the social organization model that existed before the current paradigm, namely 'Tribalism'. I should be clear here that he's not suggesting a return to primitive hunter/gatherer modes of subsistence, but rather a change in focus away from large scale communities as the basic unit of society and toward the small tribal enterprise centered around making a living for its members.

I'm not sure if it can be viewed this narrowly, but it has always been my opinion that given unlimited ability to colonize the galaxy and the very limited ability to exercise central control over the frontier colonies, there would be lots of despotic worlds out there and a resurgence of indentured servitude if not outright slavery would be likely.

In the Firefly universe there is a stong implication that we have learned to manipulate energy and mass to the extent that privately owned ships can flit around the galaxy at will and planets/moons can be quickly and cheaply terraformed.

In such a universe every man can be a King and we all know that it is good to be King.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Franco

ARCHER

Wednesday, October 15, 2003 1:22 AM

Actually Franco, John Campbell (one of the top science fiction editors of the golden age of that genre) put it best when he corrected that truism.

It's not power that corrupts, per se. It's immunity. When uneasy rests the head that wears the crown, said crown tends to be a lot more cautious in exercising its power.

Conversely, even a normal fellow can create a great deal of havoc if given immunity from consequences. (You can see that in cases where various dips get Federal immunity for stooling and spend their time rampaging about making people's lives miserable.)

The eternal antidote to oppressive government is a citizenry prepared to take it down.

We don't know who put this cup of life into our hands. But when we go our bones will bake upon the burning sands. 'Cause we walk but once among the living, so no regrets and no forgiving- it's hard to dance when you're down upon your knees. And these are dark days indeed.

DRAKON

Wednesday, October 15, 2003 8:35 AM

Quote:
I'm not sure if it can be viewed this narrowly, but it has always been my opinion that given unlimited ability to colonize the galaxy and the very limited ability to exercise central control over the frontier colonies, there would be lots of despotic worlds out there and a resurgence of indentured servitude if not outright slavery would be likely.

I really hope you are wrong, and I think in one respect you may be.

As a culture or species expands beyond its home planet, you will see less centralized control. Its damn difficult to run an intersteller empire, mostly because of communications. That could lead to localized pockets of despotism. But there is a bug here.

Each colony will be competing against all others for new settlers. While it may be good to be the king, no one wants to be the peasants to that king. Therefore free and democratic societies are going to have a distinct edge over despots in attracting colonists.

And even then, colonies are going to be hurting for labor. Which means that each colonist will have to be more productive than is usual. Its one of the problems the US has always had, a shortage of labor, which has forced its work force to be more productive. (One of the reasons American workers end up earning more than their developing world counterparts. There are fewer of us, and because of that, we are more productive.)

To make the work force more productive means to be better educated. And better educated folks are, the less tolerant they are of guys in shiny hats telling them how to live. The more educated, the less need there is for a king, and the more desire there is for democratic governments.

Knowledge is power, and power is the ability to affect change. The very resources and people a colony needs in order to succeeds, serves as a natural immunity from slavery or despotism. Folks are always going to look for the bigger better deal, and slavery just ain't that attractive.

Then there is all the constraints that a slave society puts on the slave owners, in order to prevent a slave rebellion. Its a whole can of worms that one does not want to get into. (Unless one is writing a kick ass science fiction program and needs the natural conflict.

)

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

FRANCO

Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:32 PM

Immunity corrupts

That is excellent and we see it at work constantly, both from the restraint that it brings and in the deluded minds of those that think they have attained that immunity.

There is no such thing as permanent immunity but the Romans proved that a balance of beneficence and cruelty can sustain an empire until it rots from within. Half a millennium is a pretty good stand.

The many frontier colonies of Firefly may be close to immunity but only the most benevolent despotism would survive long.

It may be good to be King but for it to last you better be a good King.

Franco

ARCHER

Thursday, October 16, 2003 5:27 AM

I think good old Rance Burgess learned that lesson the hard way, yep.

We don't know who put this cup of life into our hands. But when we go our bones will bake upon the burning sands. 'Cause we walk but once among the living, so no regrets and no forgiving- it's hard to dance when you're down upon your knees. And these are dark days indeed.

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