Is Joss Whedon a one trick pony?

POSTED BY: AngusThermopyle
UPDATED: Sunday, March 26, 2006 18:03
VIEWED: 16194
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THESOMNAMBULIST

Friday, March 24, 2006 5:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GORRAMREEVER:
Quote:
I remember reading an interview about Tim Burton and the interviewer was asking him about his [Burton's]obsession with the outsider figure, and up to that point Tim hadn't really worked out that he had that obsession about the films he'd made. It took him by surprise.

Clive Barker once took a modern lit analysis class (undercover of course) and they came to read one of his books when he got his paper back, he'd failed. He brought it to the attention of the instructor that he'd infact written the book. The instructor simply replied, "I know who you are, do you think I didn't notice the picture on the back of the book. You write the books and I will analyze them. Now stop wasting my time."

HA!!! That's priceless

Thanks for that. Remeinds me of that scene in Annie Hall where Woody Allen pulls out the writer of a book who Allen and a fellow cinema goer are arguing about. The writer backing up Allen and chastising the other guy for knowing nothing about his work! And Allen turns to camera and says:
"Boy wouldn't it be great if life were really like that!"

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Friday, March 24, 2006 5:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Hey AngusThermopyle

Always interesting to see a contrary viewpoint on Joss Whedon.

I think in part you're right to his obsessions and preoccupations. Thing is he isn't alone most creative people indulge in their obsessions whatever they may be. I'll site some examples:

Stanley Kubrick :Violence, Sexual diviance and underage sex: A clockwork Orange, The Shining, Lolita, Eyes Wide Shut.

Steven Spielberg :Child hero figures, The hunter figure, Broken families: Close Encouters of the third Kind, ET, Jaws, Duel, Sugarland Express, Jurassic Park.

Disney :I forget the exact figures but aparently only four Disney films have ever dipicted characters who were in a healthy family environment, all the others represent some stem of a broken family.

Tim Burton :Death, Outsiders, skeletons and gothic horror, : Bettlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Peewee's Big adventure, Batman.

Ridley Scot : Female hero figures, Long self-indulgent photography, Violent male characters: Alien, GI jane, Thelma and Loiuse, Bladerunner, 1492

David Cronenberg: Sex, Desire, Taboo subject matter: The Brood, Dead Ringers, Crash

Peter Greenaway: Classical references, Literary references, art, nudity: Drowning by numbers, The Cook his Theif his wife and her Lover, The Pillow Book, Baby of Macon.

Guilemo Del Toro: Human/monster hybrids, Water, Yellow light : Blade 2, Cronos, Hellboy.

James Cammeron :Strong female leads, Water, guns, military: Aliens, Titanic, True Lies, Terminator

and so on. It's a common theme with creative types. Many times they're unawre that they do it. I remember reading an interview about Tim Burton and the interviewer was asking him about his [Burton's]obsession with the outsider figure, and up to that point Tim hadn't really worked out that he had that obsession about the films he'd made. It took him by surprise.

In the commentary's I've heard with Joss he has mentioned several times that while he is aware that he isn't making Shakespeare he is also a beliver that while you are working on a project you must 'feel' as though what you're doing is a work of Shakespeare. His argument being that you have to invest so much time and energy into a project, that unless you beieve in it whole heartedly you won't get something made.

I know where he's coming from. I'm a cartoonist and very often I do things that I think: Yup! That's it! It's brilliant a work of genius! But when I'm done and I look at it after the deadline is done and dusted I see it for what it really is: nothing much really, and I know many others' could have done it - but unless I think it is worth my time there and then because it is unique, I won't get the thing done.

Filling a blank pice of paper ain't easy and over a long period of time you have to draw upon those obsessions to fuel your imagination. It's kinda all you have sometimes.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

P.S. If he is a one trick pony..... WHAT a trick to have.

I agree with much of what you said, Somnambulist. However, you gave each of those writers/directors quite a few obsessions. And in the main, they aren't preaching about it.

As a writer and musician myself, I do understand about obsessions. Boy do I understand; but that's another story. That wasn't my point. It's the preaching again and again the same point or issue. I don't have a problem with a revisited theme, which isn't actually an obsession, it's more an interest or influence, I think.

PS. Nice site.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Friday, March 24, 2006 5:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
How about:
Paul Anderson: fighting, blood, nonsense,un-focused plots- Soldier, Mortal Kombat, Event Horizon, AVP.

You're right on about preoccupations. I say let 'em loose ('Cause they give us flicks like Serenity!!!)

Chrisisall, in reality, a teenage girl that can kill

God yeah Paul Anderson! How? Why? Director for hire syndrome.

Oh well.

www.cirqus.com

LMAO, I actually quite like Event Horizon (which is basically The Shining in space), but mainly for the ship. A mate of mine was one of the concept artists who worked on it, as well as Fifth Element, 007's, Captain Scarlet, Thunderbirds, Tomb Raider I and II (Last 3 he thought were all crap.)

CHRISMOORHEAD

Friday, March 24, 2006 5:37 PM

This is funny, cause it's something I stress over all the time. Before I saw Firefly, I saw Serenity in theaters. Before I saw it in theaters, I saw commercials for it. It looked "interesting", but I was again faced with a trailer that highlighted the "In-your-face-kick-ass-and-take-no-names hot chick!" character.

I HATE that character.

I HATE Angelina Jolie and her Tomb Raider, I HATE Charlize Theron and her Aeon Flux, I HATE Milla Jovovich and her Ultraviolet, and I HATE, I HATE, I HATE PETER PAN!

Seriously, how much more one-dimensional can you get? Sex appeal + Violence = MONEY! This formula is the reason people like 50 Cent make successful movies and is therefor EVIl!

That said: I saw Serenity, and despite the presence of two "strong woman" female characters like Zoe and River, I was not annoyed, not in the least bit, by their strength. And you know why I think that is? Because it wasn't being shoved in my face. Also, because the characters had genuine depth. Beating men up was not the extent of their personalities, they had flaws and unique types of strength that made them not only standable, but likeable. Likeable to the point that I wanted to see the series after the movie, and became a very dedicated fan.

On the subject of femanism: Any person that needs to identify or associate themselves with a larger group for "empowerment" is, in my opinion, inheirently weak. I just heard a story the other day about a guy who had been "tricked" into having a child by his girlfriend. He found a "Men's Rights" group, and now they're campaigning for him not to have to pay child support. This idiot couldn't keep it in his pants, insisted on riding bareback, and now he's whinning. He is responsabile for making me realise my own opinion that ALL human interest groups for any given types of people, men, women, negros, hispanics, caucasians and so on are completley counter productive to the cause they claim they're striving for. People should learn to stand on their own and be responsible for their own lives and mistakes, not go off and cry to the government everytime something doesn't go their way.

Anyways, I'm going to crawl back into my hole.

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

CHRISISALL

Friday, March 24, 2006 5:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:

I HATE Angelina Jolie and her Tomb Raider, I HATE Charlize Theron and her Aeon Flux, I HATE Milla Jovovich and her Ultraviolet, and I HATE, I HATE, I HATE PETER PAN!

Ha! You did not lump Jessica Alba with Dark Angel in there; this obviously means you recognize the depth of her character in it, and the strong, character-driven stories they told on the show! It too, was more than simply 'pretty chick kicks ass'.

I'm with ya, ya got taste.

Also a Dark Angel fan Chrisisall

THESOMNAMBULIST

Friday, March 24, 2006 5:52 PM

Ok I understand your issue now. It isn't fun having someone preach their notions to you I agree . I must admit I've never felt Joss was preachy though, so I didn't pick up on that.

(That said I could give you a fair ol' list of preachy directors, writers painters and musicians but I won't.)

I'd say he is no more a feminist than say someone like Ridley Scott or the Coen Brothers. I think the danger of tackling an issue like Feminism or Rascism is that people perceive the breaching of a difficult topic as preaching. I feel that about elements of Spike Lee's work, however good they may be.

But I think, and I may be wrong, that Joss just saw an untapped narrative thread within cinema: That of the 'blonde' lead fighting back. I wouldn't say he's making a direct observation on the real world so much as flying contrary to accepted 'cinema lore'. ie blonde girl in dark alleyway therefore must die!

But I may be wrong. And if it's any comfort I shall now rewatch all my Joss dvd's for evidence of what you've raised :D

...and thanks BTW.

Cheers
The Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

REAVERMAN

Friday, March 24, 2006 5:58 PM

Quote:
With all JW’s talk about the future being about two superpowers: US and China (unlikely, I think);

Not to nitpick or anything, but if you look at the state of the world today, China is an industrial superpower. They make just about everything for everyone (exactly how the U.S. became an important world player). As for military might, their fighting forces number 20,000,000 (with an additional 20,000,000 in "public service brigades" that do jobs like repairing roads and maintaining the country; while not as rigorously trained as the main fighting arm of the military, are ready to fight on short notice). The total U.S. Military strength (including intel analysts, desk pilots, etc... that dont do much actual fighting) numbers 2,500,000- 3,000,000. Three quarters of that is scattered around the globe and in no position to mount a cohesive action quickly. Another thing is, people think of China as primitive and backward, but in most feilds, they are only a couple of years behind the U.S. That's one of the benefits of manufacturing electronics for the most advanced nations in the world. The fact is, China's already a superpower. Most folks just dont want to admit it.

"We're gonna explode? I don' wanna explode!"

GORRAMREEVER

Friday, March 24, 2006 6:02 PM

I believe somewhere in the commentary for buffy (season 1 ep. 1?) Joss actually makes a point to say that is where buffy orignated from. He always wanted to see your "typical damsel in distress" turn around and kick her attacker in the nuts, instead of crying or running away she becomes a strong female hero. _Not a direct quote, but you get the idea_

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

Friday, March 24, 2006 6:32 PM

Quote:
The other thing (which is in most of his series) is that all the good guys are Americans and the baddies are British...

I can't vouch for the accents as I'm American, but I'm pretty sure that one would count Giles and Wesley as good guys in Joss shows. I think Spike in the last seasons of Buffy and Angel would be considered one of the good guys too.

"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon

THESOMNAMBULIST

Friday, March 24, 2006 6:35 PM

AngusThermopyle: wrote:

Quote:
LMAO, I actually quite like Event Horizon (which is basically The Shining in space), but mainly for the ship. A mate of mine was one of the concept artists who worked on it, as well as Fifth Element, 007's, Captain Scarlet, Thunderbirds, Tomb Raider I and II (Last 3 he thought were all crap.)

*Somnambulist back tracking shamelessly about Paul Anderson*

of course if he's looking out for a concept artist "Tchik tchik!" *Does pistol fingers* You know where I am ok. ;)

Incidently nothing wrong with the 'art direction' to any of those films. Nifty stuff all around. So good on your friend.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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