Is Joss Whedon a one trick pony?
POSTED BY: AngusThermopyle
UPDATED: Sunday, March 26, 2006 18:03
VIEWED: 16194
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I’ve watched pretty much everything Joss Whedon has done. Actually, I think I have: complete Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Serenity. And it occurred to me that they’re all very similar. I especially noticed this with the Serenity movie.
What is the obsession about teenage girls, skinny teenage girls (almost pubescent, you might say) and violence? It was a shame that he had to make River into Buffy in Serenity. I was expecting so much more. I was hoping for something different and intriguing. I liked the idea that she had the knowledge about the Parliament creating the Reavers by accident with their need to control the populous. I thought that was quite original. But he had to have her beating up a load of fully-grown men.
There seems to be this whole feminist, all men are misogynistic bastards thread running through everything he does. Speak for yourself, mate. I have never hit a woman nor even wished to. I’m also no feminist. I like women and I respect them. I understand that men and women are different and that men and women have different strengths and weaknesses. That’s why we need each other. I’m currently watching Angel season 3 again and I’d been thinking about writing this for some time, and thought I wouldn’t bother, until I got to the Billy episode. It really wound me up. I think JW oversimplifies issues with melodrama. Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed Angel and Firefly. Buffy was a different case, however. It really got pretentious and self-righteous as the seasons went on, especially the final one. That was just ridiculous. I’ve said this before and I stand by it: When the networks cancel JW shows it’s often a good thing. I think he needs someone to say: “Ok, you really should stop now. You’re starting to preach again. And you’ve said this before… A lot.“
When I’ve seen JW giving interviews, it is quite apparent that he does have a penchant for self-import indulgent lyricism. He does like to go on about metaphors etc. Let’s be pragmatic here. They’re just martial arts/horror/sci-fi TV shows. Fun as they are. It isn’t Mervyn Peake or Shakespeare.
I don’t think these criticisms can be laid squarely at JW’s door though. I have noticed that the more pretentious and contentious episodes of the various TV series tend to be written by Tim Minear.
However, Whedon himself wrote Serenity. It was his magnum opus in many ways. He did say it was the movie he’d always wanted to make. But was it as good as Firefly, which does have its own faults? In a lot of ways I think not. For instance, I don’t think he managed to capture the feel of Firefly in the movie. In many ways it felt over produced. I liked the intimacy of the TV series. It didn’t seem to be there in the movie. At least, it didn't seem to be there for me. The other thing that was disappointing and took away a lot of Firefly’s originality was the fact that space wasn’t silent anymore. I really like that about Firefly. I feel it gave it an edge and a loneliness.
Oh and one or two things I just have to mention from Firefly: In the episode Shindig, Sir what’shisface went on about his sash saying it denoted lord-hood. I think that would be knighthood. A lord is a lord and a sir is a knight and I’ll move to queen bish 3. The other thing (which is in most of his series) is that all the good guys are Americans and the baddies are British, apart from one East European. With all JW’s talk about the future being about two superpowers: US and China (unlikely, I think); how come all the crew are American and Chinese people only seem to be in the background, selling from market stalls or walking by? One last thing: Why does he get so many Americans to play Britons? They can’t do it. No American ever has. James Masters doesn’t even know how to pronounce poof! Juliet Landau was the best, but even she is rather a caricature of some Dickensian character (which is ironic as Dicken’s characters are caricatures anyway). And when Summer Glau attempted it in Shindig, I nearly blew a gasket laughing. Pick a county, love: Dickensian London, the west country, Berkshire? The lin
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I'm hearing a lot of complaints out of you which is fine, but just for comparison's sake what did you like about Joss's shows?
-Dan
Ain't that just shiny?
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My husband and I (and all our friends who are fans of buffy and Whedon) agree that Joss should have been born a lesbian. He is completely obsessed with female empowerment. Could stem from the fact that he was raised solely by his mother, dead beat dad no where to be found.
That being said, I don't exactly agree with river being made into "buffy" in Serenity. Two completely different characters who happen to be small in frame, and large in power. Different motivation behind each though. Buffy was "chosen" to save the world from various and assundry mythological beasties. River was an extremely intelligent child who was "created" to be a weapon, most likely of evil intent. She made a choice to use the training and other stuff the scientists put in her head for good, to save her friends. There are definately some similarities though...but as a whole they are much more different, than similar.
Buffy draws very distinct lines between right and wrong. Firefly blurs them. They are thieves & smugglers plain and simple. Sure its wrong but its what they've got to do to survive.
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Actually, I did forget to mention that Angel and Firefly crack me up.
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Quote:
Originally posted by GORRAMREEVER:
My husband and I (and all our friends who are fans of buffy and Whedon) agree that Joss should have been born a lesbian. He is completely obsessed with female empowerment. Could stem from the fact that he was raised solely by his mother, dead beat dad no where to be found.
That being said, I don't exactly agree with river being made into "buffy" in Serenity. Two completely different characters who happen to be small in frame, and large in power. Different motivation behind each though. Buffy was "chosen" to save the world from various and assundry mythological beasties. River was an extremely intelligent child who was "created" to be a weapon, most likely of evil intent. She made a choice to use the training and other stuff the scientists put in her head for good, to save her friends. There are definately some similarities though...but as a whole they are much more different, than similar.
Buffy draws very distinct lines between right and wrong. Firefly blurs them. They are thieves & smugglers plain and simple. Sure its wrong but its what they've got to do to survive.
Interesting. I didn't know that. Appreciate the headsup.
I agree in some respects and disagree in others. I'd say that both Buffy and River were chosen, both by powers higher or mightier than themselves. One for good, as you say, the other a misplaced belief in what was good. Worshipping the devil in the name of God, you might say which in many ways applies to buffy too.
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Hey AngusThermopyle
Always interesting to see a contrary viewpoint on Joss Whedon.
I think in part you're right to his obsessions and preoccupations. Thing is he isn't alone most creative people indulge in their obsessions whatever they may be. I'll site some examples:
Stanley Kubrick :Violence, Sexual diviance and underage sex: A clockwork Orange, The Shining, Lolita, Eyes Wide Shut.
Steven Spielberg :Child hero figures, The hunter figure, Broken families: Close Encouters of the third Kind, ET, Jaws, Duel, Sugarland Express, Jurassic Park.
Disney :I forget the exact figures but aparently only four Disney films have ever dipicted characters who were in a healthy family environment, all the others represent some stem of a broken family.
Tim Burton :Death, Outsiders, skeletons and gothic horror, : Bettlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Peewee's Big adventure, Batman.
Ridley Scot : Female hero figures, Long self-indulgent photography, Violent male characters: Alien, GI jane, Thelma and Loiuse, Bladerunner, 1492
David Cronenberg: Sex, Desire, Taboo subject matter: The Brood, Dead Ringers, Crash
Peter Greenaway: Classical references, Literary references, art, nudity: Drowning by numbers, The Cook his Theif his wife and her Lover, The Pillow Book, Baby of Macon.
Guilemo Del Toro: Human/monster hybrids, Water, Yellow light : Blade 2, Cronos, Hellboy.
James Cammeron :Strong female leads, Water, guns, military: Aliens, Titanic, True Lies, Terminator
and so on. It's a common theme with creative types. Many times they're unawre that they do it. I remember reading an interview about Tim Burton and the interviewer was asking him about his [Burton's]obsession with the outsider figure, and up to that point Tim hadn't really worked out that he had that obsession about the films he'd made. It took him by surprise.
In the commentary's I've heard with Joss he has mentioned several times that while he is aware that he isn't making Shakespeare he is also a beliver that while you are working on a project you must 'feel' as though what you're doing is a work of Shakespeare. His argument being that you have to invest so much time and energy into a project, that unless you beieve in it whole heartedly you won't get something made.
I know where he's coming from. I'm a cartoonist and very often I do things that I think: Yup! That's it! It's brilliant a work of genius! But when I'm done and I look at it after the deadline is done and dusted I see it for what it really is: nothing much really, and I know many others' could have done it - but unless I think it is worth my time there and then because it is unique, I won't get the thing done.
Filling a blank pice of paper ain't easy and over a long period of time you have to draw upon those obsessions to fuel your imagination. It's kinda all you have sometimes.
The
Somnambulist
www.cirqus.com
P.S. If he is a one trick pony..... WHAT a trick to have.
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Quote:
I'd say that both Buffy and River were chosen, both by powers higher or mightier than themselves. One for good, as you say, the other a misplaced belief in what was good. Worshipping the devil in the name of God, you might say which in many ways applies to buffy too.
True except that river showed exceptional skills and intelligence from birth "Everything she did came to her as easily as breathing does to us" Her abilities were merely enhanced. Whereas buffy showed an inate ability to match her shoes and lipstick to her current outfit and jumping up n down shaking her pon poms until someone said "Here ya go, have some super strength and speed. Now go kill demons"
You do make an interesting point though.
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How about:
Paul Anderson: fighting, blood, nonsense,un-focused plots- Soldier, Mortal Kombat, Event Horizon, AVP.
You're right on about preoccupations. I say let 'em loose ('Cause they give us flicks like Serenity!!!)
Chrisisall, in reality, a teenage girl that can kill
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Quote:
I remember reading an interview about Tim Burton and the interviewer was asking him about his [Burton's]obsession with the outsider figure, and up to that point Tim hadn't really worked out that he had that obsession about the films he'd made. It took him by surprise.
Clive Barker once took a modern lit analysis class (undercover of course) and they came to read one of his books when he got his paper back, he'd failed. He brought it to the attention of the instructor that he'd infact written the book. The instructor simply replied, "I know who you are, do you think I didn't notice the picture on the back of the book. You write the books and I will analyze them. Now stop wasting my time."
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
How about:
Paul Anderson: fighting, blood, nonsense,un-focused plots- Soldier, Mortal Kombat, Event Horizon, AVP.
You're right on about preoccupations. I say let 'em loose ('Cause they give us flicks like Serenity!!!)
Chrisisall, in reality, a teenage girl that can kill
God yeah Paul Anderson! How? Why? Director for hire syndrome.
Oh well.
www.cirqus.com
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