Where does Firefly take place?

POSTED BY: Hans
UPDATED: Sunday, July 2, 2006 05:23
VIEWED: 62435
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HANS

Thursday, October 9, 2003 6:52 PM

Well, this may have been discussed before, but there are still some unanswered questions about where Firefly takes place. This is a rather fundamental question, but there's no really strong evidence one way or another. I haven't seen all the episodes yet, I'm catching up on them as they air on Space. But the way I see it, there are two possibilities:

Hypothesis #1. Firefly is set in a single solar system (not Earth's) with many planets and moons in the system.

Hypothesis #2. Firefly takes place over many solar systems.

Evidence in favour of Hypothesis #1:

- There is a lot of talk about "core planets" and planets "on the rim". This implies (to me) a single star system. It's not impossible that one solar system could contain dozens of worlds and hundreds of moons. In any solar system there is a very limited "life zone" where planets like earth could flourish. This could be where the core worlds are. Further out, various planets and moons could have been terraformed to hold life, but they are never as lush or comfortable as the core worlds (leading to the independents/alliance split).

- Book's intro from The Train Job is very strong evidence that it takes place in one system: "After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar system and hundreds of new 'Earths' were terraformed and colonized. The central planets formed 'The Alliance' and decided all the planets had to join under their rule...After the war, many of the Independents...drifted to the edges of the system, far from Alliance control."

- There does not seem to be any evidence of any faster-than-light drives in existence. An FTL drive is essential for traveling between solar systems with any sort of speed. For a show that seems to treat science with respect (e.g. no sound in space) it would be strange for there to be no mention of how people break the light speed barrier. Obviously, there must have been some sort of method of travel from Earth to this new solar system, but it was possibly a trip that lasted decades aboard huge colony ships.

Evidence in favour of Hypothesis #2:

- In the episode "The Message", Book says "You got your command stripes at the Silverhold Colonies. Puts you about eight solar systems away from your jurisdiction..."

- Apparently a cut line from Objects in Space describes New Melbourne as "A fishing city that’s also a layover point for most of the planets in its system".

- The talk about "core planets" and "rim planets" could refer to a cluster of stars, with the solar systems in the central area containing the major planets, and the ones on the rim of the cluster the colonies.

Personally, I favour Hypothesis #1. The line from "The Message" could be just a common saying (like someone on Earth saying "you're a million miles from your jurisdiction"). If we ignore the cut line from Objects in Space it makes it easier. It does make me wonder what the writer's bible (if there is one) says on this topic. I'm sure it's something Joss et al took into consideration.

Your ideas?

Hans

CPTBUCK25

Thursday, October 9, 2003 7:15 PM

As an astronomy student, I'd have to favor #2. you're right in saying that such a system as described in #1 is not impossible, but it would be VERY improbable. Even in a metal rich system where a binary system did NOT form (something that's more and more likely the more 'metals' you have in a system) there could still be only two or at most three terrestrial planets in the life belt while maintaining even remotely stable orbits. The huge number of moons involved again could be possible in a system like the #1 hypothesis describes, but it would require more than a few gas giants with fairly close orbits to the local star. Even then, however, 'hundreds' of moons that could be terraformed is going quite a stretch.

I would think it more likely that the series takes place in a tight cluster of stars further in towards the center of the galexy. There more stars and systems are likely to be metal rich, thus allowing for terrestial planets in the life belts of stars. Also, there clusters of stars are often found with mean distances between stars within the cluster of well under a light year. These clusters are not often stable in the long run, but the 'short-run' in this case is going to be a billion or two years. A young cluster would be both metal rich(thus providing ample resources for terraforming) and have stellar members that were astronomically close. a FTL drive would still be neccesary for practical travel, but the distances would then be small enough that the amount above C required would not be great, perhaps allowing primitive FTL drive to be good enough.

HANS

Thursday, October 9, 2003 7:39 PM

You're right that, once you get too far outside the life belt, terraforming is not going to be enough to turn an uninhabitable world into a habitable one. During the run of the show there were mentioned almost 30 habitable moons and planets... God knows how many there would be now if the show kept running! That certainly supports the "many systems" theory.

I guess that, from a dramatic standpoint, I prefer the idea of "one system". So many TV shows ignore or bypass the huge problem of FTL travel, that I kind of hoped Firefly would address this by having the show confined to one star system.

Of course, that still brings us to the problem of how the Serenity and other ships solve the problem of FTL travel. That light speed barrier is pretty darn significant, and breaking it is not just a matter of putting a bigger rocket on the back of the ship. I would imagine it would have to be more than just some "flux capaciter" stuck in the corner of an engine room.

Also, whenever someone mentions distances from one planet to another on the show, it usually seems to be measured in hours, or at the most days (e.g. 10 hours from Jiangyin to Greenleaf in "Safe"). We don't know enough about the geography of Firefly to know how far they travel in those 10 hours (it could be inside the same system), but if they are travelling from one solar system to another that's pretty darn fast...

ZAPHODB

Thursday, October 9, 2003 7:59 PM

I think they may have something similar to the jumpgates used on B5, or perhaps even FTL ferry ships.

DRAKON

Friday, October 10, 2003 9:18 AM

So, we have kind of a problem here. If Hypothesis #1 is true, then we ignore the problems associated with FTL, at the expense of an unrealistic solar system.

If Hypothesis #2 is correct, we get more realistic solar systems, but face the problem of FTL.

I go with #2 because of:
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0009013
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9905084

goto www.lanl.gov/find, search all archives for all years, and enter Warp Drive in the "Title" block of the form. There is a lot of serious research going on. (Not nearly as much as I would like)

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

HANS

Friday, October 10, 2003 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ZaphodB:
I think they may have something similar to the jumpgates used on B5, or perhaps even FTL ferry ships.

Possible, but either of these would be a huge part of any travel between worlds, and the fact that in none of the shows is there any mention of such a thing is what bothers me. I know, the absence of a mention doesn't mean they don't exist, but the more episodes you watch without a mention of them makes it more unrealistic.

(Also, I believe events in Out of Gas imply that their method of travel is entirely self-contained, with no external jump gates or wormholes. Can someone who's seen this episode recently confirm this?)

I'm not arguing that FTL does not exist in the show. It just makes me sad to think that, in 14 episodes, they never thought to resolve this issue. In many ways Firefly is more about people and drama then technology but, at the same time, they seemed to be trying to create a realistic universe. And if you check out the Technology section of the database, you'll see that a whole lot of other parts of the ship were identified...

DRAKON

Friday, October 10, 2003 12:50 PM

It sounds like you and I have something in common, a low threshold of suspension of disbelief. You would think that if FTL were used, they would make mention of that fact, and I wish they would.

But, like you said, the show is about the characters and crew, not the technology. And for the most parts, it don't matter. We are not going to see a "particle of the week" or long string of technobabble like we've come to enjoy on Star Trek. The tech is obviously advanced enough that it is little thought about.

Besides, how often do you get into real world conversations about the intricasies of the Internal Combustion Engine? Its a very obsequeous part of life on planet Earth, but a lot of folks don't know much about it, and talk about it even less.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Friday, October 10, 2003 8:30 PM

Actually, Book says "Puts you about, eight sectors away from your jurisdiction?" in The message (I checked), so there's no evidence for FTL travel. The closest is when Mal narates "Terraformed a whole new galaxy of Earths", but that could just be captain dummy talk.
--
I am Jack's username
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?" - Mal

TUDYKSGAGREEL

Friday, October 10, 2003 9:02 PM

It only really makes sense that its number 2. For there to be a solar system that large there would have to be plenty of suns to allow the rim planets to be heated. And also if they only traveled within the same solar system then every single shot of the ship flyin through space would have to have the sun in frame to make sense because if you cant see it theyre obviously not in the solar system. As for FTL argument i agree wit the fact that its not mentioned because the characters hav no reason to mention it. When ya drive your car ye dont talk about what runs the engine

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Friday, October 10, 2003 9:38 PM

tudyksgagreel, when travelling near Mars, Europa, or Titan, the sun wouldn't look like it does from Earth's surface, it would only look like a very bright star.

Also, we can observe rocky planets in only one star system, our own solar system. There could be planet/moon configurations around other stars we've never even imagined, including ones with many Terraformable planets.

--
I am Jack's username
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?" - Mal

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