Historical references in Firefly

POSTED BY: DontCallMeLawrence
UPDATED: Thursday, March 30, 2006 00:19
VIEWED: 8061
PAGE 1 of 3

1 2 3 NEXT PAGE

DONTCALLMELAWRENCE

Friday, March 17, 2006 8:02 AM

Seeing as Firefly is a very historically based show, this is my attempt to start a little american history thread.

please post any musings on specific or general events referenced within the show, or parallels and similarities seen.

or just your personal thoughts on the post-civil war west and the post-unification outer rim.

Lawrence

P.S.
This is most likely a desperate attempt on my part to find some fellow browncoats who are as obsessed with the civil war and west as I.

BROWNCOAT1

Friday, March 17, 2006 2:29 PM

I am very much a War Between the States buff and love discussing it.

What are your thoughts on the parallels to the American conflict? You know of course that Joss read the book "The Killer Angels" and it inspired him to create Firefly.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

ZOOT

Friday, March 17, 2006 3:44 PM

I aboslutely love and find riveting the US Civil War and the settling of the West - but speaking as an English woman, I never seem to know quite enough about them - despite having read a huge tome entitled "The West" and watching the wonderful Ken Burns' Civil War on the History Channel every Saturday ... (in passing once also saw a Ken Burns thing on the Indian Wars which was fab) ...

Would be very interested to hear what anyone else has to say re the links between FF and history though ...

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

DONCOAT

Friday, March 17, 2006 4:36 PM

I'll throw one into the mix, though it may be a bit controversial.

One facet of the American West was the tendency for fringe religious groups to migrate there to establish communities free from government and/or social oppression. The most obvious example of this was the Mormon faith, aka Latter-Day Saints (LDS), who were hounded out of a couple of locations further east and finally settled in the Great Salt Lake area. The state of Utah is predominantly LDS to this day.

Now, these fringe religious groups often had unconventional ideas and practices that made them anathema in more settled regions. In the case of the LDS, these were the acceptance of some very, shall we say, unusual scriptures, and the practice of polygamy.

How does this relate to Firefly? Well, we didn't learn much about the hill people portrayed in Safe, except one thing: they have some very unusual religious beliefs (which sanction the burning of "witches"). These are certainly unconventional even in the 'verse at the time, judging by Inara and Book (the two crew members who seem to profess any significant faith).

Could this community have been a veiled reference to the LDS or other, similar fringe groups who settled on the American frontier?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

KUANGZHEDE

Friday, March 17, 2006 5:50 PM

The historical connection that I see in relation to American history is more of the overall symbolism that the show expresses. As with Manifest Destiny, the 'verse, particulary on the outer fringe has a since of longing for new hope and new opportunities. Mal's plight is similar to that of many confederate troops who headed west from their occupied and devistated lands, doing mercenary work, crime, searching. The fringe of the 'verse is any many ways comprable to the mind set of early american settlers heading west. People had a sterotypical veiw based on lack of knowledge about the peoples and dangers of the west. More myth than reality. Reavers, while not a direct comparison to Native Americans, share many of the sterotypical views earlier settlers had: Savages who will rape you to death and wear your flesh is not a new idea. More over, in Serenity, Miranda(Reservations and the Far West)is a nice little example of how early US goverment, in an attempt to calm and control the population uses Pax...aka whiskey and pox blankets. While Reavers hit settlements and ships (wagon trains and early settlements) and preform barbaric acts, the debree feild they hangout in reminds me of the difficulties of crossing the Rocky Mountains. The converted transport ship hit by Reavers trying to start a new life in a distant land is another example.

The people in general struggling to survive and cut out a peice of the 'verse to call there own. The hope of the west was a chance to start over. Criminals gaining power and creating a false front as respectable business men.

As hero's go, the history of the west is full of hero's who in essense were anit-hero's which Firefly seems to be full of. Wyatt Earp was not that the same guy who used to be a child actor for Disney. Janestown is a good example of this. Disease is a important part in exploration and settling and firelfy touches on that as well in the Train Job( well and its a train heist lol). Heart of Gold gets your nice emperical leader similar to land owners of the west who owned unclaimed territory in which they were the law (oh yeah and hookers.) The fact that the haves and have nots population spread is similar to the old west where a few men have all the power, no middle class to speak of, and the rest scrapping along is nice. Mals' gun, though I know we know what real gun it is, is very similar to the early line of colts. Zoe's gun looks like a chopped down winchester. Book is a missionary traveling to the fringe to spread the word as was common in the old west. Robbing the payload in Serenity- Butch Cassidy and Sundance.

Sitting around the dinner table has always fascinated me. That an entire group of people eat together around a gas lamp (fire) reminds me of wranglers. Speaking of which, they do move cattle don't they? In that regards to, the sword duel, while I am sure Mal would have prefered his pistol, that is similar to old west shot outs when a persons honor had been insulted. Also noticed that the coffee is made on the stove, I think, in that super european (was it porshe?) pot. If not, I know it was on the stove when Jane got a cup.

When the Fed's encounter Serenity and discuss shooting first if they run into the brother and sister, and latter Mal ask if this is his first command on the fringe, I am reminded of the atrosities of US troops, sent west to quell crime and uprisings under the guise of protecting the citizens, under pompous and uninformed "green" generals which sometimes got them killed (why does everybody assume I am talking about Custer?)

Sorry for the long post, I just keep thinking of things. If you like the West or want to learn more in general, see "Into the West" very good

DONTCALLMELAWRENCE

Saturday, March 18, 2006 4:20 AM

shiny!

some fellow buffs.

Does anyone know if Joss has confirmed that The Battle of Serenity Valley was based on Gettysburg?

I sort of assumed due to the Killer Angles inspiration, but in the firefly deleted scenes Zoe does mention some stuff that is reminiscent of Fredericksburg.

Early on in the show there where some obvious references. The Georgia Galaxy, Jubal Early. One of my personal favorites is the exchange between Zoe and Mal"This is why we lost, you know. Superior numbers." Zoe: "Thanks for the re-enactment, sir.", and then of course the line about rising again.

I always felt that Lawrence Dobson, from the first episode, was a nod to Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. And that Mals name was inspired by John F. Reynolds...

...So many Confederate ideals so many Union names... but that is neither here nor there

And now the big question...
... How valid is a future that so mirrors the post civil war west. Could it happen?

If I get a response I'll post my opinion on that one.

Lawrence

******************************

Tom: The men from 2nd Maine are being fed, sir.

Lawrence: Don’t call me sir.

Tom: Well, Lawrence, Great God A-Mighty–

Lawrence: You just be careful of that name business in front of the men. Listen, we don’t want anybody to think there’s favoritism.

Tom: General Meade has his son as his ajutant.

Lawrence: That’s different. Generals can do anything. Nothing quite so much like God on earth as a general on a battlefield.

CABOT

Saturday, March 18, 2006 6:25 AM

You can toss in former Confederate soldiers such as Frank and Jesse James turning to a life-of-crime after the war, robbing banks and trains. (Of course in their case, what they did after the war was pretty much what they did during the war too...)
____________

River: Midbulk transport. Standard radion accelerator core class-code 03-K64. Firefly.

MICJWELCH

Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:

Could this community have been a veiled reference to the LDS or other, similar fringe groups who settled on the American frontier?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

You sounded like you were hoping for a responce, so here goes. I'm LDS myself, and I don't find what you said so contraversial. I think Joss Whedon modeled the show after the old west, so that included pretty much everything people have referenced here, including the religious groups leaving persecution. I'm certainly glad though that the LDS church didn't get the same treatment it did in Starship Troopers. That was weird.

I'm not sure that any of the references are DIRECT references though. The civil war, the churches, the government... I think Joss Whedon simply modeled his 'verse after our own. I don't see anything to suggest that Joss Whedon thinks the southern states should have seceeded. I don't think he's trying to say that our government is out to "make us better." I don't think he's really very politically motivated. I think he's just trying to tell a story. And a story is more believable and relatable (is that a word?) if it is close to something we already know about.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

DONTCALLMELAWRENCE

Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:43 PM

I found the payroll robery in Serenity veary Jesse James

Tom: The men from 2nd Maine are being fed, sir.

Lawrence: Don’t call me sir.

Tom: Well, Lawrence, Great God A-Mighty–

Lawrence: You just be careful of that name business in front of the men. Listen, we don’t want anybody to think there’s favoritism.

Tom: General Meade has his son as his ajutant.

Lawrence: That’s different. Generals can do anything. Nothing quite so much like God on earth as a general on a battlefield.

DONTCALLMELAWRENCE

Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:54 PM

I'm going to be out and with no computer access all weekend, but will hopefully have a chance to do a longer post after that.

but just for the record the confederacy was completely justified in seceding.

I love the war in general. My favorite general is Chamberlain (Union), but I do lean to the Confederate when it comes to ideals.

******************

Tom: The men from 2nd Maine are being fed, sir.

Lawrence: Don’t call me sir.

Tom: Well, Lawrence, Great God A-Mighty–

Lawrence: You just be careful of that name business in front of the men. Listen, we don’t want anybody to think there’s favoritism.

Tom: General Meade has his son as his ajutant.

Lawrence: That’s different. Generals can do anything. Nothing quite so much like God on earth as a general on a battlefield.

1 2 3 NEXT PAGE