any christians here in this entire site please stand up
POSTED BY: leelu7777
UPDATED: Monday, September 22, 2025 14:45
VIEWED: 32293
PAGE 8 of 23
Quote:Ah... er... unless your "dawn of time" is a lot later than my "dawn of time", that would make this rejection of truth go back anywhere from 50,000 to 3 million years ago. Just think of all those people, rejecting the word of God.
Present the truth of the gospel in a heartfelt manner, but don't become defensive if people reject it. People have been rejecting it from the dawn of time, and it would be presumptuous on our parts to think we can present it any better than even God's own son (who was rejected, too).
Sigh.
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Quote:
Originally posted by OmegaDark:
But, heck, sometimes it definitely feels like it would just be easier if He just popped out from behind the clouds to explain something....but to this day I am still waiting for that...I hope you have better luck...
He did, they got it on film in Monty Python and the search for the holy grail:
God: What are you doing now?
King Arthur: Averting our eyes, oh Lord.
God: Well, don't. It's just like those miserable psalms, always so depressing.
God: Every time I try to talk to someone it's "sorry this" and "forgive me that" and "I'm not worthy"...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear
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Hahahahahaha! 
Quote:
He did, they got it on film in Monty Python and the search for the holy grail:
Good point!!!
-OD
X
(I can't read or write)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I'm just going to sum up what you've written as you are not arguing from a historical perspective, but using the bible completely. You also seem to think that the bible is the only thing that needs to be argued from as you seem to be ignoring history completely.
Well, there is no historical evidence(or very little that I'm aware of) to back up the miracles of the Bible*.
(*Although, I did recently see something where deep water subs have found intact, ancient chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea -- and coral which has formed in the shape of long-since-deteroriated chariot chasis -- which is something of a coincidence when one considers that the Bible has claimed the Egyptian army was drowned when God closed the Red Sea on them over 3500 years ago.)
So, in response to your point about circular logic, I was not attempting to use the Bible to prove the Bible (or the miracles reported therein -- which I do believe actually occured), but that even when God has revealed Himself miraculously (by His own account), most people still stubbornly, chose not to believe.
So,it's my conclusion that "evidence" will never convince the people who don't want to believe in the first place. That was the point I was trying to make -- not to prove or disprove the verity of scriptures.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
You have also failed to give me this proof that everyone keeps talking about.
Well, I'm not "everyone" -- and I have stated from the start that it is highly unlikely that God's existence can be "proven". As such, I'm not obligated to prove something which I have maintained all along probably can't be subjectively proven.
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Quote:They also got it on film in Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey, when God revealed his most important of words:
Originally posted by citizen:
He did, they got it on film in Monty Python and the search for the holy grail:
"Station..."
They melvined me Chrisisall
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Quote:
So,it's my conclusion that "evidence" will never convince the people who don't want to believe in the first place.
You summed it up right there.
Just one thing I wanted to say about the historical aspect:
It is very counter-productive to argue from a historical perspective in the first place. The bibles intention was never to give you a historical account for the sake of history, but to give you something you can use for your life today, right now, here, the moment...
so many of those who would argue against it based on history are missing the point. Even if history does prove the stories true or false, nothing will change the message or intention or truth.
Quote:
ancient chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea
Althought it is pretty sweet to find out things like that just mentioned!!
-OD
X
(I can't read or write)
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Quote:
Originally posted by OmegaDark:
Althought it is pretty sweet to find out things like that just mentioned!!
Yes, it certainly causes even believers to do a double-take and say, "Hey, what?!?!"
Wish I could find out where that report was. It was fairly recent. Several people I know also saw it. As organized and detail-oriented as I have always been, unfortunately, I do not footnote my entire life and every bit of information I run across. It would be nice if we had search engines for our brains, wouldn't it? (Although, some would argue that mine is only a few kb in size anyhow, so why bother?)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Yes, it certainly causes even believers to do a double-take and say, "Hey, what?!?!"
Not that your interested in anything I have to say, me being an evil Islamic terrorist heathen and such but I knew this.
There's also a scientific explanation, the sea did “part”, at around the time recorded in the Bible, due to a huge volcanic eruption on the island of Thera (Santorini) that wiped out the Cretan civilisation (the guys with the Minotaur from Greek myth).
Also, you should probably know that the original Hebrew Bible account puts the parting of the water in the Yam Suph (Reed Sea), not the Red Sea, which is believed to be an ancient name for Lake Manzala, a body of water in the North East Nile delta.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear
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oh ouch!! I hurt myself laughing and fell on the floor (gravity really sucks sometimes!! heehee).
I have to say that this thread has been very entertaining and thought provoking both pro and con christianity. But after having taken required courses addressing ancient cultures/religions, I have to remain on the fence. Not an atheist, but not going to lie and claim to be a christian. I abide by my parents/in-laws beliefs and decided long ago that organized religon was not for me. My children did attend a "non-demonational" sunday school when they were young, and my daughter opted to join AOG when she was in high school. My son is like me, agnostic, a higher power may or may not have been involved in the creation of the planet and stars, but that is as far as it goes. My husband (who refers to himself as a recovering catholic) is of the same mind. We have found the quickest way to start a family fight that never gets resolved is to discuss religion. My roman catholic in-laws have quit insisting I attend mass, and I quit making tacky jokes concerning the pope, and we get along great. Live and let live is my motto, and for the most part, keeps me out of trouble.
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You say this:
Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
I was not attempting to use the Bible to prove the Bible
Then this:
Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
but that even when God has revealed Himself miraculously (by His own account)
These two things just don't jive.
You say that you are not using the bible to prove the bible. Yet the bible is really the only place in which it is stated that god exists; "His own account".
Then you just make the statement that god has revealed himself.
So, basically, your logic is that god exists because it has been shown in his own account. So, that logic is bible == bible. Yes, we know that the bible is the bible (
) but that says nothing about the original question.Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
, most people still stubbornly, chose not to believe.
So,it's my conclusion that "evidence" will never convince the people who don't want to believe in the first place. That was the point I was trying to make
When that "evidence" is riddled with logical fallacies, then I wouldn't expect anyone to come to the same conclusions.
If you just state that it is a matter of faith and cannot be shown by any real means, then I cannot nor will I argue that. Because that is my opinion of the whole thing as well
But, if you state evidence that could easily be explained by other non-supernatural means, then I'm going to have to say something.
Your chariot chasis example is a perfect example of this. To say that they are there and that implies something, or is evidence of something is rather fallacious. One must show that what one is getting at is at the very least the most probable solution before stating something like this.
Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
You have also failed to give me this proof that everyone keeps talking about.
Well, I'm not "everyone" -- and I have stated from the start that it is highly unlikely that God's existence can be "proven". As such, I'm not obligated to prove something which I have maintained all along probably can't be subjectively proven.
I probably confused you with another poster in this thread. Sorry
----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki
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