Reading Minds in 'Objects'
POSTED BY: nuclearday
UPDATED: Thursday, March 9, 2006 21:31
VIEWED: 10394
PAGE 3 of 4
Quote:
Come to think of it: there's something else that's bothering me about the opening in that episode.
Where exactly DOES the gun come from?Quote:
It's the same gun she used in "War Stories". She's had it ratholed for some time.
Now a small spanner into the works, Simon would never say (or even think) what River picks up from him. Why? He just wouldn't, that's why. "...point of fact, it's love..."
And another, Simon is telling Kaylee stories about his college days. Simon WOULD NOT be back there if it weren't for River. He's been out of Med school for some time.
Some of what River is picking up is true (Jayne), some is false (Simon & Book). I think we are supposed to conclude that River's mental condition is deteriating. She's waving a pistol around thinking it's a twig for Chistsake.NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I am starting to go towards thinking that alot of what River sees is filtered/ distorted through her own subconscious, as well. Sure, she's reading minds, but also superimposing her own concepts onto what she sees. I think that makes alot of sense. Kind of another layer to the onion peel there, too.
Far as the gun goes... I can go either way I suppose. I certainly don't have any better ideas than supposed River's sequestered it from "War Stories." (I'd need to check, but come to think of it, it looks like the same gun...) And she's certainly becoming less stable by that point in the series (not that she was all that stable before :) Same time, the thing that leaves it open to me is that there's really very little evidence one way or another there. River looks as surpised to find it as anyone else was... though she was admittedly getting pretty far out from reality at that point...
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You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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My take on OIS:
In both OIS and Serenity, River wakes up twice. Also, in OIS, Kaylee describes River as "not a person", in Serenity, Mal asks River, "Are you anything but a weapon?".
In Serenity, River wakes up and you hear, "Cut them down". I think the weapon woke up, and when then she wakes up again, its River. In OIS, when she hears Early's voice, she woke up once; its the weapon, and it taking a sleeping River along on a search for Early, and a gun to use on him.
A conscious River would never pick up a gun, so the dreaming River sees it as "just an object". The crew's yelling wakes her up the second time, "It was in my hand".
River does not have to be physically present to read people's minds. We are seeing how River perceives reading them; as thought she's actually right there with them. I think the weapon is in control of River and is scanning them looking for Early.
Physically, the weapon is stalking Early, and knows were every gun is on the ship. Perhaps Jayne may have hidden guns around to use during an emergency, such as the next time Mal tried to shove him out an airlock. He might not want to admit to hiding guns.
I think the Blue Hands were creepy because they were weapons, not persons any longer. That's what was going to happen to River, but she escaped. They would have killed her and just left the weapon. Once you have the weapon, you don't need River to turn on you? That is probably why she so fears the Blue Hands, perhaps they have kind of psychic power over her.
It seems River and the weapon are in some kind of contention and interfer with each other for control, and that's when she is confused and crazy.
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river is not crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats the basic noob misstake to make.
she is a reader that why she is always holding her head and complaning about noise and space she is not talking about the real world but her head her mind.
and she is just gifted as far as any of hte crew she could run the ship if she had too she rules......
I CAN KILL YOU WITH MY MIND..........
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Quote:Excellent. Just excellent. I think you have it.
Originally posted by Lampyrid:
My take on OIS:
In both OIS and Serenity, River wakes up twice. Also, in OIS, Kaylee describes River as "not a person", in Serenity, Mal asks River, "Are you anything but a weapon?".
In Serenity, River wakes up and you hear, "Cut them down". I think the weapon woke up, and when then she wakes up again, its River. In OIS, when she hears Early's voice, she woke up once; its the weapon, and it taking a sleeping River along on a search for Early, and a gun to use on him.
Especially if you combine that with the idea that River (or rather, the riverweapon) had the gun stashed somewhere since War Stories.
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I don't disagree on any particular point.
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Interestin insights, but i think i disagree with your conclusion on Inaras statement
What River hears is most likely wots at the surface of people minds so Inaras comment "you can tell me, i'm a big girl" (or wotever it is) probably means she wants Mal to admit his feeling to her. Simple.
I know it aint the most interestin possabiliy but it sorta makes the most sense
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i agree though river can actually read in to people if she wanted to though just usaually touches the surase thoughts and leaves it at that.
she does read the love that is shonw by inaria and mal and the comment that she reads off her is just means that she wishes mal would just treat her like a grown up lady with feeling.
I CAN KILL YOU WITH MY MIND..........
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In Serenity, Dr Mathias refers to River as having a destablized reality matrix and layers of psychosis.
In Safe, Simon calls it paranoid schizophrenia.
On FireflyTalk #18, the winning article of the prop giveaway contest was "Firefly/Serenity and Schizophrenia". The author describes the similiarities between a schizophrenic relative and River's behavoir.
Her behavior in safe is not just because she's a reader, its a personality change.
I agree thought that much of what the crew dismisses as crazy is either River being overwhelmed or expressing herself acurately but in terms the crew don't grasp.
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As Simon said in Ariels
Simon: You know, ah, you know how you get scared or worried or nervous, but you don't want to be scared or worried or nervous, so you push it to the back of your mind? You try not to think about it. Your amygdala is what lets you do that. It's like a filter in your brain that keeps your feelings in check. She feels everything; she can't not
River has no choice as to when she hears others thoughts
The court of this obsession, is abstracted from possession which when the worlds of outside in fall.
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Wow. Lampyrid, I think you just described that whole scene perfectly. Putting it like that, as "River vs. the Weapon" puts a different light on everything for me, and answers some of the questions that were bugging me.
Okay, now I'm off to watch through that episode again... ;p
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You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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