Inara - a Wiccan perspective

POSTED BY: incongresswiththebeast
UPDATED: Friday, May 12, 2006 15:14
VIEWED: 21618
PAGE 6 of 10

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BitterBierce:
"All very fine historically, but I fail to see how any of this means their any less meaningful, spiritual, or enlightened than the Bible?"

What the fuck is it with you and making up things that I never said? Listen, cause this is the last time I'm gonna say it before boredom truly sets in: this religion is funny and silly on its own terms, by its own logic. It will never need goth chicks and quartz crystals to make it stupid 'cause it was already there.

---

"Uh look, I don't agree with their point of view any more than you do, but denying the sheer amount of energy the Church put into exploring the philosophy of theology is absurd. In fact, the Christian drive for metaphysics are what created the modern university system of explored knowledge- the direct precursor to the scientific method and the englightenment came directly from their toiling. The nonsense those flatheads adhere to is several orders of magnitude more sophisticated than yours."

So yes, you did say Christains are more enlightened, hell you said they spawned the Enlightenment. And yes, you did point to a lack of Wiccan texts as an example.
It has been brought to your attention that there are, in fact, Wiccan texts. You differ them from the Bible is several ways. Therefore, the only possible conclusion you could have meant is that their texts don't compare.

I most certainly did not misintrepret you. Perhaps you need to follow your own thread of though closer.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BitterBierce:
You see, the stupidity here is what scientists call "multi-causal", a fancy way of saying there's a whole slew of reasons not to respect it! Why, it's dumb because of it's metaphysical assumptions, the people who worship it, AND the fact that it, you know, technically isn't actually Wicca.

Or, let's put it in terms you understand: maybe you should have an open mind about the many reasons to laugh at it.

---

That was actually funny. First you make a grandiose statement, saying we shouldn't respect religion because there's a lot of reasons we shouldn't respect it. Then you say I can't understand those terms (perhaps because it's circular logic), and then you paraphrase something else entirely. Clever.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BitterBierce:



"We're actually getting into an intellectual discussion. I'm almost enjoying it."

You know, sometimes I get glimpses of you as a real grim fella. It interests me to think: I wonder how many people here would ACTUALLY get along with the rough and tumble types of the Firefly crew. I don't think everyone would: you, for instance, I could see getting killed by any number of the main male leads you quote.

---

You have no idea what I think on any of the issues I have brought forth other than my own prejudices I have explicitly stated, so saying I wouldn't fit is yet another bad assumption of my character. And it is another satirizing comment which I can only assume is meant to gall browncoats into thinking that I'm not a real browncoat, so my opinions don't matter.

_____________
Carry the Nuttin'

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

I think the only way to solve this is to dress all the Christians up in white tabbards with red crosses, full plate mail and long swords. Then, dress all the Wiccans up in ropes and wooden stakes with some dirty rags for decency. If their magic is real, they'll find a way.

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

incongresswiththebeast,
Howdy, and welcome. Sorry your original post got hijacked into this debate (tho' it has been mildly entertaining). Interesting thoughts on the wiccan spin to the companions. My take on the companions and the guild was more along the lines of the geisha (not chinese but still eastern). I figured a lot of the 'sacredness' of the rituals was to make it acceptal to polite society and, over time, it became truth (and believed by most involved). Early on, considering all the dirt the guild (a consolidated group of 'working' women and men) had on wealthy clients, they would easily have enough leverage to elivate their status initially. After a while the rituals were real, the social status and power of the guild was too.

-Some people juggle geese!

CHRISMOORHEAD, rofl! Isn't that the point the BDH's show up in the nick of time? "Yea, but they're our witches".

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Mmm, yes, indeed, with rifles to match our swords. Damn those big... damn heroes...

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

The rest of it was boring, but the end, oh the end. I've never seen ANY inferences so tenuously made in my life, this is almost brilliantly inane. I'm going to quote both side-by side in case anyone else is watching. They need to see how crazy you are:

What I said:

"You know, sometimes I get glimpses of you as a real grim fella. It interests me to think: I wonder how many people here would ACTUALLY get along with the rough and tumble types of the Firefly crew. I don't think everyone would: you, for instance, I could see getting killed by any number of the main male leads you quote."

What you managed to glean from it:

"You have no idea what I think on any of the issues I have brought forth other than my own prejudices I have explicitly stated, so saying I wouldn't fit is yet another bad assumption of my character. And it is another satirizing comment which I can only assume is meant to gall browncoats into thinking that I'm not a real browncoat, so my opinions don't matter"



The hell? It's like you were responding to the guy talking in your head. I said you seem grim to me, and somehow this turns into me knowing about your beliefs or prejudices or anything else I wasn't talking about. Holy CRAP you're random.

The second part was the most bizzare, though: by me idly wondering whether you'd get along with the crew, somehow I'm angling to get you to look bad in front of others? You're not grim, you're stone cold nuts. Or intensely stupid, one or the other or a combo pack. I couldn't care less about what they think of you. And just so we're clear, what you said was broadcast on W-KRZY. This is clinical dysfunction-level insane on your part.


"So yes, you did say Christains are more enlightened, hell you said they spawned the Enlightenment."


How can they be more enlightened if their central idea is wrong? The definition of enlightenment assumes correct notions that Christians don't have. Oh, and for today's history lesson: the Enlightenment was a REACTION TO the Age of Faith. It happened DESPITE the Church, not because it was the Church. The spawning of the Enlightenment was merely an unintended result of their metaphysical flights of fancy. The Enlightnment was enlightened because it defined the world away from Church authority. So no, I didn't say Christians are more enlightened and if you could read you'd know that.
I said I respected people who think systematically and hard, which they did. Those two things, enlightenment and systematic thinking? Not related.

You seem entirely immune to exact concepts.


"I most certainly did not misintrepret you"

Fuck, I'm beginning to think you didn't even READ me. I'm not sure you can understand this sentence.

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

All we need to understand this posting is to quote one sentence from it and compare it with what you'd said in the previous one:

What you say now:

"...instead of actually refuting something, you just mention how it bores you to death"

What you said previously:

"We're actually getting into an intellectual discussion"



And that about covers the consistancy of your mental processes.

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BitterBierce:

And that about covers the consistancy of your mental processes.

---

I hope that someday, you are able to laugh at yourself as much as I'm laughing at you now. I'd explain why, but you just wouldn't get the joke.

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ThePistonEngine:

You refer to the lack of Pagan texts.

---

There is actually a number of base texts that Pagans can work from. I know of Llewellyn's Sourcebook Series, there is probably others. One of which is sitting on my bookshelf, "Three Books Of Occult Philosophy" by Henry Cornelius Agrippa of Nettesheim. It was written in the late 15th/early 16th century.



At any rate, just thought I'd point out that there are a number of base texts for Pagans.

---

I'd like to chime in on this.

It's true, Wicca is not based on texts the way that the Abrahamic religions are. Those who believe that God can be found in a book see this as a weakness. Many who follow Wicca realize that direct experience of the Divine is more important than experience filtered through books.

Having said that, I'll add that many Wiccans supplement, enhance, or even bring about direct revelation by studying texts from many different sources; most Wiccans engage in a lot of comparative religious study. Some prefer secondary sources, though I like to read primary sources (in translation, unfortunately) whenever I can. I've found insight in various mythologies as well as the teachings of the major religions, even the teachings of Jesus.

In fact, it was Christ who advised spiritual seekers not to cast their pearls before swine, which is part of why I'm not going to bother trying to impress BitterBierce.

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BitterBierce:
All we need to understand this posting is to quote one sentence from it and compare it with what you'd said in the previous one:

What you say now:

"...instead of actually refuting something, you just mention how it bores you to death"

What you said previously:

"We're actually getting into an intellectual discussion"

And that about covers the consistancy of your mental processes.

---

Yes, obviously my opinions changed somewhat. between now and then. Probably because you again decided to get of the track of discussing your opinions and just started, well, randomness. It's amazing how you twist yourself into thinking you didn't say what you plainly did.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BitterBierce:
The rest of it was boring, but the end, oh the end. I've never seen ANY inferences so tenuously made in my life, this is almost brilliantly inane. I'm going to quote both side-by side in case anyone else is watching. They need to see how crazy you are:

What I said:

"You know, sometimes I get glimpses of you as a real grim fella. It interests me to think: I wonder how many people here would ACTUALLY get along with the rough and tumble types of the Firefly crew. I don't think everyone would: you, for instance, I could see getting killed by any number of the main male leads you quote."

What you managed to glean from it:


"You have no idea what I think on any of the issues I have brought forth other than my own prejudices I have explicitly stated, so saying I wouldn't fit is yet another bad assumption of my character. And it is another satirizing comment which I can only assume is meant to gall browncoats into thinking that I'm not a real browncoat, so my opinions don't matter"


The hell? It's like you were responding to the guy talking in your head. I said you seem grim to me, and somehow this turns into me knowing about your beliefs or prejudices or anything else I wasn't talking about. Holy CRAP you're random.

---

There is nothin fallacious about my reasoning. You assume I'm grim, which has nothing to do with the ideas I set forth. Therefore its comment on my personality. Then I go on to mention You have no idea what I actually believe. Its true, you don't. I've explicitly stated a few opinions and prejudices I have, but you don't. So you've no business how well I'd get along on Firefly and who'd shoot me. Now, as I was searching for any motive behind that statement, the only thing I could think of was wahat I said before. I did mention it's an assumption. But YOU said it. I merely broke it down.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BitterBierce:


The second part was the most bizzare, though: by me idly wondering whether you'd get along with the crew, somehow I'm angling to get you to look bad in front of others? You're not grim, you're stone cold nuts. Or intensely stupid, one or the other or a combo pack. I couldn't care less about what they think of you. And just so we're clear, what you said was broadcast on W-KRZY. This is clinical dysfunction-level insane on your part.

---

Good cold analysis. Keep it up.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BitterBierce:



"So yes, you did say Christains are more enlightened, hell you said they spawned the Enlightenment."


How can they be more enlightened if their central idea is wrong? The definition of enlightenment assumes correct notions that Christians don't have. Oh, and for today's history lesson: the Enlightenment was a REACTION TO the Age of Faith. It happened DESPITE the Church, not because it was the Church. The spawning of the Enlightenment was merely an unintended result of their metaphysical flights of fancy. The Enlightnment was enlightened because it defined the world away from Church authority. So no, I didn't say Christians are more enlightened and if you could read you'd know that.
I said I respected people who think systematically and hard, which they did. Those two things, enlightenment and systematic thinking? Not related.

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME