Inara - a Wiccan perspective
POSTED BY: incongresswiththebeast
UPDATED: Friday, May 12, 2006 15:14
VIEWED: 21618
PAGE 3 of 10
You only said two sentences that interested me.
Quote:
Bierce, your comments were totally unjustified.
In a roundabout way, my whole argument with this fella is that I don't have to justify myself to you or to anyone else, or the way I approach things.
Quote:
Keep them to yourself.
I think instead I'll just say what I want when I want to and otherwise act under the (admittedly incorrect) assumption that I live in a free country. Czeslaw Milosz once explained how he generally defeated the oppressive nature of the Eastern European regimes: act as if you were free and say what you want, no matter what your conditions. You'd be surprised how far it can get you.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I think you may have fallen in the same trap I did, that trap being reading and posting a reply as another relevent post is being sent up. So please, if you want to back your opinions up with something other than "freedom of speech," (go ahead, speak all you want. I don't believe there is a freedom of fff.net forum anywhere in the constitution), feel free to look at my latest post.
Quote:
Originally posted by BitterBierce:
You only said two sentences that interested me.Quote:
Bierce, your comments were totally unjustified.
In a roundabout way, my whole argument with this fella is that I don't have to justify myself to you or to anyone else, or the way I approach things.Quote:
Keep them to yourself.
I think instead I'll just say what I want when I want to and otherwise act under the (admittedly incorrect) assumption that I live in a free country. Czeslaw Milosz once explained how he generally defeated the oppressive nature of the Eastern European regimes: act as if you were free and say what you want, no matter what your conditions. You'd be surprised how far it can get you.
_____________
Carry the Nuttin'
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Oh yeah, because I forgot the first time around: This is the satirical farce that doesn't make for good intellectual discussion you previously promoted.
I thought I was promoting fun, not intellectual argument. There's a place for it, and it ain't here.
Quote:
I don't think I implied this in anyway, but hey, you go ahead and put it in my mouth.
Wow, it didn't even occur to me you might take that seriously. I don't quite know what to say other than "it was a joke, I didn't mean it".
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
(Begin satire)Well, it's good to see your satirical arguments have fallen to "I didn't mean it," "we live in a free country," and "I was promoting fun." I'm sorry I completely mistook you from the very beginning. I guess I failed to see how obviously insinuating commments about Wiccans (You are obviously fairly schooled, so I am sure you knew every implication you were making), such as poking fun at "negative energy" and openly professing disrespect, was simply fun. I'm guessing the Catholic Church thought Voltaire was all in good clean fun, not really trying to promote any intellectual argument. (End satire)
_____________
Carry the Nuttin'
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
I agree, which is why the beautiful thing about Wicca is that there is so much more of them to make fun of. Why, when you've done all the Buffy girl crap you haven't even BEGUN to exhaust the ways you can make fun of them!
You have far too much free time on your hands.
The fact is, any Wiccan past the fluffy-bunny stage is quite willing to poke fun at themselves. Humor, you see, is a religious experience to many Wiccans. And we have internal stereotypes to make fun of that you haven't even heard about. The fact is, you can't say anything about us (that is true, that is) that we haven't said already about ourselves.
Quote:
Oh no, son. I know rather more about them than I want to, and their theo-spirituality is complete mumbo-jumbo.
If you consider it mumbo-jumbo, then no, you don't know very much about it. If you see only mumbo-jumbo, then you have missed the point about the religion and any further criticism you have about it loses validity fast.
Quote:
I was serious when I said it was statistically likely I dated her*. I have quite a lot of familiarization with standard Pagan (as opposed to Wiccan) works, most all owing to being bored in arious Pagans' houses. It comes as close to being metaphysically meaningless as it's possible to be. In terms of metaphysics, it's primitive, rock throwing reasoning. And yes there are HUGE New Age influences throughout every last strand of Paganism.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Metaphysically meaningless? Only if you have a flat-headed, text-wedded narrow Radical Monotheistic point of view. What, exactly, do you find meaningless about our theology? Indeed, what do you know about your theology? Our metaphysics is quite robust and well developed in some circle -- I'm not talking about the Scott Cunningham crowd. And as far as the New Age influences, I repeat: Like all religions, we are syncretic, and we will absorb concepts and practices we find beneficial to our spirituality. It's commonly noted that the beliefs of the "New Age" are quite old, just with a new coat of paint. That doesn't bother us. Sorry if it bothers you.
Quote:
Proof justice exists in this world. And really, you don't take enough heat for your views.
And what views would those be? What do you know of Wiccan/Pagan theology? The real stuff, not the hype and the propaganda.
Don't pick on us just because we're an emergent religion -- if you have a philosophical bone to pick, slap it on the table. I brought the BBQ sauce.
StA
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Careful ScrewTheAlliance... you fast going down a bad road debating the viability of your religion, its origins, its practices, the customs of its members, and whole slew of things near and dear to your heart. And I think you missed some of what Bierce is saying, I don't think he has much respect for any religion, I just think he ascribes more value to monotheistic ones that represent some of Thomas Aquinas's values.
There are plently of people who see, perhaps ignorantly so, Wiccans as juvenile, or satanic, or whatever stereotype you want.
I delibertly tried to keep the discussion in the flow of Bierce's bad tactics, bad taste, and arrogance. Don't get too caught up in the particulars, it will turn the light from his lack of being able to have an intelligent discussion and allow him to speak unbacked opinions. There is no way that's going to end well.
Better leave this between two ignoramuses who don't care much for Wiccans (joke!)
_____________
Carry the Nuttin'
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Interesting take on Inara. I really enjoy hearing about all the Browncoats different beliefs and prespectives.
An I carried such a torch
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey, that's fine -- I just thought that the original discussion topic was an astute one. While Inara is by no means a Wiccan -- she is obviously a Buddhist -- there are aspects of her profession that have religious resonance with modern Wiccan/Pagan ideas. First and foremost, the idea of sexuality as an inherently sacred -- as opposed to sinful -- expression of our humanity.
But a Wiccan perspective on the Companions goes further than that. The determination that sexuality is sacred, which is one of the foundations of Wiccan spirituality, leads to the inevitable conclusion that the componant genders are also reflections of the Divine -- complementary, equal reflections. The Rebirth of the Goddess is a powerful theological argument in modern Paganism, and one the Radical Monotheists have no clear answer for.
As far as the gadfly, my skin is thick. I've been beat up by better people than that, and ones who had a real theological clue. I've seen challenge after challenge to my faith over the course of twenty years, and yet my faith remains stronger today than when I first found the religion.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
The Rebirth of the Goddess is a powerful theological argument in modern Paganism, and one the Radical Monotheists have no clear answer for.
Rebirth of the Goddess? What is that?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Thanks "SCREWTHEALLIANCE" for your perspective. I really enjoyed reading your posts and I thank the thread originator for starting this whole discussion.
I have done a little study in this area and found information like this.....
(from The Golden Bough by Sir James Frazer)
'Thus at Babylon every woman, whether rich or poor, had once in her life to submit to the embraces of a stranger at the temple of Mylitta, that is, of Ishtar or Astarte, and to dedicate to the goddess the wages earned by this sanctified harlotry. The sacred precinct was crowded with women waiting to observe the custom. Some of them had to wait there for years.
At Heliopolis or Baalbec in Syria, famous for the imposing grandeur of its ruined temples, the custom of the country required that every maiden should prostitute herself to a stranger at the temple of Astarte, and matrons as well as maids testified their devotion to the goddess in the same manner. The emperor Constantine abolished the custom, destroyed the temple, and built a church in its stead.
In Phoenician temples women prostituted themselves for hire in the service of religion, believing that by this conduct they propitiated the goddess and won her favour. "It was a law of the Amorites. that she who was about to marry should sit in fornication seven days by the gate."
At Byblus the people shaved their heads in the annual mourning for Adonis. Women who refused to sacrifice their hair had to give themselves up to strangers on a certain day of the festival, and the money they thus earned was devoted to the goddess.
A Greek inscription found at Tralles in Lydia proves that the practice of religious prostitution survived in that country as late as the second century of our era. It records of a certain woman, Aurelia Aemilia by name, not only that she herself served the god in the capacity of a harlot at his express command, but that her mother and other female ancestors had done the same before her; and the publicity of the record, engraved on a marble column which supported a votive offering, shows that no stain attached to such a life and such a parentage.
In Armenia the noblest families dedicated their daughters to the service of the goddess Anaitis in her temple at Acilisena, where the damsels acted as prostitutes for a long time before they were given in marriage. Nobody scrupled to take one of these girls to wife when her period of service was over.
Again the goddess Ma was served by a multitude of sacred harlots at Comana in Pontus, and crowds of men and women flocked to her sanctuary from the neighbouring cities and country to attend the biennial festivals or to pay their vows to the goddess.'
I can easily see the character of Inara expressing some of these anchient beliefs. From what I have read of The Great One (all Hail Joss!), he is quite the history nerd. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he used this character to explore some of those old ideals.
~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME