Miranda: What's going on?

POSTED BY: TakenBaxter
UPDATED: Thursday, March 23, 2006 07:41
VIEWED: 7678
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SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, March 2, 2006 9:14 PM

@Fletch2:
And where exactly would all the border worlds get the money and equipment for such a venture? IMO, they wouldn't have done this even if they could. They would've used the tech for themselves, because they needed it.

What you're saying is basically, the border worlds were screwed and bearly scraping by. So, they decided to split what they had and send people to a different planet(s) to colonize.

Doesn't make sense.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

NOSADSEVEN

Thursday, March 2, 2006 9:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Quote:
Originally posted by nosadseven:

"Too much could very easily kill them in horrible ways..."

Umm, isn't that exactly what happened?

Accident. Not intention.

Point being, it's not an explanation for why the "Research and Rescue" crew were not (directly) affected.

My thoughts? The effects of the Pax appear to be permanent, so it wouldn't require a persistent presence in the atmosphere. The R&R folks would be able to safely see the results of the drug, without risking exposure to it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

FLETCH2

Thursday, March 2, 2006 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
[B]@Fletch2:
And where exactly would all the border worlds get the money and equipment for such a venture? IMO, they wouldn't have done this even if they could. They would've used the tech for themselves, because they needed it.

What you're saying is basically, the border worlds were screwed and bearly scraping by. So, they decided to split what they had and send people to a different planet(s) to colonize.

Doesn't make sense.

Read what I wrote and check out the layout of the 'Verse. The only Core world you ever see is Ariel. Those big city planets you see like Persephone and Beaumont are Border worlds, these are the kind of planets that formed the Independents. The little shanty town places like Whitefall are Rim worlds, these are the most recently colonised frontier planets.

We know that it takes a long time to terraform planets and we know that every planet in the 'Verse is terraformed. The speculation is that robot terraforming plants were sent ahead of the colony ships to prepare the way. The initial colonisation was in the Core worlds which is why they ARE the Core worlds and why they are so technologically advanced.

At that time the Border worlds were at the edge of colonizable space because only a few places were terraformed. Imagine that the Core was like Europe and the Border worlds the 13 original colonies. My guess is that the Core was too busy building industry and stuff to be too concerned with that the Border planets were doing. This meant that as their populations grew the Border planets started setting up colonies of their own. They were not that advanced themselves which is why we have shanty town western towns like Whitefall. It's exactly the same as the new Americans pushing west.

At some point the Alliance is formed in the Core and they start thinking about building their own colonies. When they do they try and build the same kind of place as they have in the Core -- "civilised" places like Miranda. It's also this time that the Alliance starts to claim sovereignty of the rest of the Verse. It's no coincidence that they start building places like Miranda just before the war --- the Core is staking it's claims on the verse.

So, the Rim worlds that are wild west style towns are the secondary colonies from the Border planets. Places like Miranda are Core secondary colonies. That's why the two sets of worlds look so different.

What we see even has real world parallels. At the same time as Americans were building wooden towns in the west, Germany was building little copies of Bavarian townships in its African colonies.

SIGMANUNKI

Friday, March 3, 2006 12:31 AM

@Fletch2:
"""
My guess is that the Core was too busy building industry and stuff to be too concerned with that the Border planets were doing. This meant that as their populations grew the Border planets started setting up colonies of their own.
"""

I'd hate to say this, but this is quite a large leap. I say this because here, on Earth, we haven't fully colonized the planet, and there are billions of use. To say that splitting our numbers between say, a few dozen planets, and after only a couple hundred years, is enough to justify making the move to colonize another planet is bloody ludricous.

Please note that there is a large difference between pushing west to cover more land, and pushing out to another planetary body. If they were going to continue colonization, they would have pushed west in the way the americans did. Namely, actually moving west... on the same planet.

"""
It's no coincidence that they start building places like Miranda just before the war
"""

Prove to me that this was before the war. Please note that you're going to have to explain the away all the inconsistencies between the series and the movie before you can do this ie the time-line has clearly been messed around with. That is assuming that the numbers that have been quoted above aren't just a mistake by Joss. And considering that he has stated in interviews before that he is about the story an not the tech details, I'm going to figure that it is a mistake.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

FLETCH2

Friday, March 3, 2006 12:55 AM

So what you are saying is that no matter what I say you will choose not to believe it. So what's the point?

By your logic there would be no point to having small ships like Fireflys because of all the difficulty in getting into space. Europeans colonised the new world in ships designed primarily for local trade, the ship seen in "Bushwacked" is exactly that, a bulk freighter upgraded privately for colonisation. If you have cheap ships and habitable places within range then people will colonise. Sorry if that ruins any pet theories.

As to Miranda

Open your Visual Companion (you have that right? You ARE a fan?)
go to page 117

KAYLEE -- "Wait a tick... yeah Some years back, before the War. There was a call for workers to settle on Miranda...."

In the shot version it was Zoe that says "Right before the war."

SIGMANUNKI

Friday, March 3, 2006 3:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:

So what you are saying is that no matter what I say you will choose not to believe it. So what's the point?

By your logic there would be no point to having small ships like Fireflys because of all the difficulty in getting into space.

This is where I stopped reading. My logic says absolutionly nothing about such a thing, and to say that it does is entirely irrational.

If you feel like having an actual rational discussion let me know. And please note that it'll have to be based on things that aren't called into question, like this probable error in the time line.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

FLETCH2

Friday, March 3, 2006 6:04 AM

No error in the timeline. It's in the script to the movie, lines are said on camera, the intention is clear. I can't help it if Joss wrote something that broke your pet theory. To paraphrase the producers "he is the writer of this show, you are the audience he outranks you!"

This happens a lot in fandom especially in shows with few episodes there are so many grey areas that fans play "fill in the blanks" and when later writers actually cover this teritory there is outrage. I realise there are problems with the timeline for the show, especially between events elluded to by Joss in writing and comments made in none script forms and DVD commentary tracks. The problem you have is that in this case it was made very clear in a script and said on film when something was. Putting your fingers in your ears and going lala doesnt make that not so. If that conflicts with any other source, interview, fanfic or comment then I'm sorry but those other sources are wrong.

Back way back someone wrote an excellent fanfic for a show I greatly enjoyed. That person was an avid fan of the series, researched all the sources and produced a story 100% consistant with the show as it stood. The show was unexpectedly renewed when even the producers thought it was to finish and the very first new episode completely destroyed the logic of that fan story.

Sorry, I'm not getting into timeline nit pics. Miranda happened before the war.

SICKDUDE

Friday, March 3, 2006 6:35 PM

Fletch2, I like your theory!

"It's a cow."

JAYNEZTOWN

Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TakenBaxter:
I've looked on this site for someone to have posted a thread about this but i've yet to find it.

Miranda. It's a Rim planet right. Right. It's one of if not the furthest planet out. So why does the Alliance choose to make a Core-like planet so far out. I mean it could easily be said that it was there for the sole purpose of the PAX expirement, but the people didn't know about it. Why would the people agree to settle so far from the Core among the "savage outer planets".

Its like when the USA was doing their rocket tests, aircraft tech and atomic bomb testing out in the middle of the the sandy deserts. Or the Russians doing their bio-experiments out in the middle of cold Siberia.

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