Reading Minds in 'Objects'

POSTED BY: nuclearday
UPDATED: Thursday, March 9, 2006 21:31
VIEWED: 10394
PAGE 1 of 4

1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE

NUCLEARDAY

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 11:19 AM

(SERIES SPOILERS I'D IMAGINE)

Okay, just finished watching through the series, in order, for like the umpteenth time. I'm starting to pick up on some of the little details now, intentional or otherwise.

Every time I watch "Objects in Space" (Damn you Early, I loathe that bounty hunter so much and yet I really hope he'll make a return appearance when next the Serenity gets back into the air...)I'm trying to pay particular attention to the opening with River's glimpses into the crew's thoughts. (Hoping to dig up some clues about Book and Inara's respective secrets... no luck with that, further from what's shown up in other threads.) Couple things I noticed, and I'm sure it's all intentional, 'cause that scene's very meticulously planned:

Simon, Kaylee, Jayne, and Inara all four are looking directly at River for their respective "flashes." Book and Mal are looking elsewhere for theirs. (And the one with Zoe and Wash I imagine is fairly self-explanatory.)

I keep coming back to that segment, cause I can't help but think it's telling in some fashion. My thoughts: The "psychic flashes" from the four that seem to be directed at River have to do with her. (Makes sense with Simon and Jayne, but what is it that River needs to tell to Inara, then? Hmm... has River picked up some insight into Inara's past, or knows something that Inara doesn't?)

I've read some posts about Book's "flash." I think the clue here is that his thoughts don't necessarily have anything to do with River, herself. He's pointedly not looking at her. I wonder if this is something from his past? I'll likely never figure Book's deal, so I'll leave it at that, I suppose. (Otherwise like to go and write a novel-length thesis on all my Shephard Book theories...)

Mal's could mean a couple things, too, really. Again, he's pointedly not looking at River. (Made even more explicit by the fact that Inara certainly is.) "None of it means a damn thing..." Is this from his past as well? A la the Battle of Serenity where he lost his faith? Or does this tie into his continuing inner struggles? Or does it have to do with Inara?

Then, what's the deal with Kaylee? She's the only one who doesn't say anything, though she's also looking at River during Simon's flash. And I can take the look she gives River a couple ways: Accusatory and taking Simon's side there? (Some resentment at River keeping the two of them apart, even though it's River's predicament that brought Simon to the ship and thusly together?) Or, I can also see it as sort of a blank look. (Kaylee's the one who wears her heart on her sleeve and doesn't really have any secrets... maybe River doesn't read anything off of her because she has nothing to hide?) Or is it a foreshadowing of Kaylee coming out to the crew about the events in "War Stories" and being at least a little bit scared of River after that?

Or, I could be reading WAY too much into all of this... ;p But this particular episode is certainly Joss' baby, and sometimes a writer adds details they don't notice until later. (Joss mentions a few details like that in the commentary.) But this seems too purposeful for me.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

THEREALME

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 12:17 PM

I pretty much agree with your conclusions. In earlier threads, I also brought up the distinction of whether or not the subject was looking at River or not.

I think that the mind-reading of Kaylee is clear. Kaylee seems uneasy, apprehensive. In place of the formerly friendly playmate is someone who is now unsure of River (certainly fallout from War Stories).

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

NUCLEARDAY

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
I think that the mind-reading of Kaylee is clear. Kaylee seems uneasy, apprehensive. In place of the formerly friendly playmate is someone who is now unsure of River (certainly fallout from War Stories).

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

Yeah, I think that's what I'm leaning towards. Mostly I tend to ramble on about Kaylee when she pops into my posts, just 'cause she's adorable. :P

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

GROUNDED

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nuclearday:
Mal's could mean a couple things, too, really. Again, he's pointedly not looking at River. (Made even more explicit by the fact that Inara certainly is.)

I always saw Inara as looking away from Mal as opposed to looking at River.

NUCLEARDAY

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 3:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I always saw Inara as looking away from Mal as opposed to looking at River.

I see your point, and it's what I'd figured until the other day. What got me, though, is that she's basically looking directly at the camera. I'm no director, but that's usually either done with a specific purpose, or it's a mistake. Breaking the third wall and such. IIRC especially with Simon and Inara they're looking almost right into the camera, ie, River's viewpoint. Still, I could be making a mountain out of a molehill, here. ;p

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

ASARIAN

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 4:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nuclearday:

(SERIES SPOILERS I'D IMAGINE)

I've read some posts about Book's "flash." I think the clue here is that his thoughts don't necessarily have anything to do with River, herself. He's pointedly not looking at her. I wonder if this is something from his past? I'll likely never figure Book's deal, so I'll leave it at that, I suppose. (Otherwise like to go and write a novel-length thesis on all my Shephard Book theories...)

Then, what's the deal with Kaylee? She's the only one who doesn't say anything, though she's also looking at River during Simon's flash. And I can take the look she gives River a couple ways: Accusatory and taking Simon's side there? (Some resentment at River keeping the two of them apart, even though it's River's predicament that brought Simon to the ship and thusly together?) Or, I can also see it as sort of a blank look. (Kaylee's the one who wears her heart on her sleeve and doesn't really have any secrets... maybe River doesn't read anything off of her because she has nothing to hide?) Or is it a foreshadowing of Kaylee coming out to the crew about the events in "War Stories" and being at least a little bit scared of River after that?

Definitely agree on the whole Book deal.

As for Kaylee, I do not think it's a foreshadow thing. True, Kaylee is probably uneasier around River after War Stories, but I think that would have been a state Kaylee was also in before she informed the crew about River taking out 3 guys with 3 single shots (wasn't River totally cute, doing that? hehe).

I'm more inclined to go with the resentment. Regardless of the cause, it's really River standing between her and Simon. As the good Doctor says, in the BDM: "I just wanted to keep River safe. Spent so much time on Serenity ignoring anything that I wanted for myself." Kaylee understood that, of course.

I think Kaylee's resentment is aimed at Simon, though, not at River (it has to be; who could resent our dearest River for anything? it's not possible, I tell you).

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

NUCLEARDAY

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:07 PM

Ah, Asarian. As the resident River expert here, I was curious to see what your take on that scene would be when I saw you'd responded. ;p

Never thought of Kaylee being miffed at Simon in that scene, though it rather makes sense. Far as Kaylee being afraid of River, I think I may have phrased that wrong. I was thinking it may have shown her apprehension of River following the War Stories situation. Really, though, I'm still confused. I just find it significant for it's notable absence that she doesn't have any lines there. At first I thought maybe it was an editing/ time constraint thing, but really we're talking about a pretty short amount of time and it'd be in the same take as Simon's...

As an aside: Yeah, River in that War Stories scene still gets me every time. Love that pose. Also, what I love about the writing on this show is that while there are those who love River in that scene, I get equally touched seeing Kaylee's vulnerability there. (And Simon is such a boob for running after Book and leaving the two most important women in life to "hold the fort" by themselves... :)

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

JOCKOCKEYOCK

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 11:42 PM

From my perspective I thought that those looking at River were self directing their thoughts not to her but to themselves. She just seemed to feel to blame as these things were not in her head directed to them selves but to herself as though they were her thoughts and not those of the people thinking them. The others that do not look at River seemed to be passive thoughts like the little voice in the deep dark of ones mind.
Just so you know hers the script pieces

River has been watching them the whole time. They suddenly turn to her, the laughter draining from their faces.
SIMON: I would be there right now.
There is coldness in his voice, and Kaylee looks at her with an expression that matches.
And then, oddly, there’s a jump cut to the two of them laughing again, as though that moment never happened.
River comes into the hallway, touching the walls as she goes, looking at her hands. She finds Book and Jayne, also in mid-conversation. Jayne is cooking scallion cakes on the griddle. Book is at the table
During all this, River wanders unnoticed right between the two of them. She turns to look at Jayne, who looks back guiltily.
JAYNE: I got stupid. The money was too good.
She turns, looks at Book, who is in her face, fiercely angry.
BOOK: I don’t give half a hump if you’re innocent of not!
So where does that put you?
Jump cut back to reality the men are laughing, Book still sitting, and River has walked between them unnoticed. She heads to the foredeck hall as the men continue.
River moves into the foredeck hall, is about to turn right when she sees WASH and ZOE on the bridge. The door is half shut and they are a ways away, but she is suddenly awash in their energy. Their clothes are on, (it's the bridge, already), but though they are playful, their energy is intense, their eyes locked. We see them as River feels them, VERY CLOSE up, wide angle lens roving around them, sweat and smiles and the sound of the ocean, waves breaking as River nearly staggers back with it, suddenly perturbed to be in that intimacy.
And now she's coming down the steps as MAL and INARA are in quiet conference at the entrance to her shuttle. River stops near the entrance.
Inara looks at her, says:
INARA
I'm a big girl. Just tell me.
Pan over to Mal, who is looking away from us.
MAL
None of it means a damn thing.
That ocean noise again, and River looks pained, nothing is as it should be here, she stumbles down the steps in a jumbled series of jump-cuts...
For more script go to …. http://www.fireflywiki.org/113.html

The court of this obsession, is abstracted from possession which when the worlds of outside in fall.

ASARIAN

Thursday, March 2, 2006 2:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nuclearday:

Ah, Asarian. As the resident River expert here, I was curious to see what your take on that scene would be when I saw you'd responded. ;p

Never thought of Kaylee being miffed at Simon in that scene, though it rather makes sense. Far as Kaylee being afraid of River, I think I may have phrased that wrong. I was thinking it may have shown her apprehension of River following the War Stories situation. Really, though, I'm still confused. I just find it significant for it's notable absence that she doesn't have any lines there. At first I thought maybe it was an editing / time constraint thing, but really we're talking about a pretty short amount of time and it'd be in the same take as Simon's...

Hey nuclearday,

If the measure of Love one has for River made one a River expert, then, assuredly, I'd be one! Unfortunately, it don't quite work that way. :)

Going over that scene with a fine comb again, there's no way I can ignore Kaylee's cold look at River now. And objectively, though it really pains me to say it, I think it's really River that Kaylee's not happy with, after all. :( She gives River an icy "You're keeping me away from my man!" look. And, looking very carefully at River's reaction, I'm now beginning to believe it's, in fact, foremost Kaylee's thoughts that shock River the most! Bear with me, for a spell.

Seriously! If you think about it, in "Safe" River already said she knew it was difficult for Simon, because he gave up everything. That's not news to her. And yet, the expression on River's face, here in Objects in Space, is really one of deep shock; as if, yes, a best girlfriend suddenly shuts you out, and gives you a cold "Why don't you be elsewhere!" look. Especially the latter is interesting; because it seems River is really responding to that! If you look closely, you see that River is hesitant, for a moment. No longer just observing, but almost interacting. She is in shock, turns her head away to walk off; then her eyes quickly turn back at Kaylee's direction; then she walks away. As if thinking: "Kaylee! I thought we were ... Wow! ... Uh, okay, I'm off."

I know, you smell a lot of "if" coming off of this theory. :) But still.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

NUCLEARDAY

Thursday, March 2, 2006 12:32 PM

Yup, that's how I'm seeing it now, too. Kaylee giving her a "get away from my man" sort of look. ;p Much thanks also to JOCKOCKEYOCK for clearing some of that up with the script posting, as well.

Think maybe once again I was reading too much into stuff ;) "Ceci n'es pas une pipe" and all... I may see shapes in the clouds sometimes, but it's still a cloud.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE