The Alliance is a good thing

POSTED BY: CTHawk
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 1, 2006 23:38
VIEWED: 3635
PAGE 1 of 2

1 2 NEXT PAGE

CTHAWK

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:17 PM

I think one of the shortcomings of the series (possibly only because it was so short and didn't have time) was that the Alliance was portrayed so negatively.
I think one of the most interesting contradictions is that the Alliance probably was almost entirely benevolent and good for the majority of people. But in order to remain so, it did terrible things.
In the series and especially the movie we only see the Alliance as a negative and corrupt, but I think it would have added depth and reality to make it more gray. (I imagine we would have seen this with more time.)
Let me know what you think.

GRIZWALD

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:27 PM

Perhaps you are right, or perhaps because these stories are told from the perspective of the Serenity crew, we would never have seen this. No matter how benevolent the Alliance is or could be, Mal sees it through blood-colored glasses.

STAKETHELURK

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:48 PM

Joss certainly seems to view the Alliance as something of a gray institution; like the Operative says, “The Alliance is not some evil empire.” It’s just hard to get that across to someone like Mal, who is so deadest against it. Additionally, it somewhat easier to tell stories about the failings of a government (when put it in a very negative light) than on its successes. But I think Joss tries to weave in the more gray aspects of the Alliance into the background of the series and into some of the characters we see working for it. And you’re probably right that as the series went on we might’ve seen a much nicer side of it (and we might’ve found out that the Independents weren’t exactly paragons of virtue).

One thing in particular Joss has said about the Alliance always struck me. I’ve been trying to track down the specific quote, it was during one of those series of interviews, I think hyping the US DVD release. The interviewer was asking about the future of the ‘verse, and whether the Alliance would collapse due to Mal’s broadcast or a second civil war. Joss said that the Alliance collapsing would be “a disaster.” He really does seem to believe that the Alliance plays an important and often benevolent role in the ‘verse.

I don’t know if I would say the Alliance is good, but it isn’t evil. And that's what makes it so interesting.

ALGUS

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:52 PM

I always saw the Alliance as sort of World of Darkness-esque, for those unfamiliar with White Wolf's role-playing game, the basic premise of the World of Darkness is that things are pretty much the same as real life, but all the violent and nasty things are relatively true. So, the Alliance is essentially good and benevolent (remember Inara, "I was in favor of unification") but all the dark little stories that tend to be whispered about secret Government experiments, fraud, corruption, those are all probably true. We know they're into their share of bad things, but they were trying to improve people after all. Well, maybe not improved in a manner we'd like, I've certainly got my sympathies with Mal and not the Operative in Serenity.

---
Where's the KABOOM?! There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom! *sigh* Delays...delays...

CHRISMOORHEAD

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:30 PM

Why go so far as to compare it to fantasey? I think all corrupt government plots in any story ever written have been based off of the inner knowledge of all humans that any form of government is untrustworthy to varying degrees. Just as all of you said, that doesn't make it "bad" by deffinition, but it's not good either.

I think we all need to start facing some facts that the MAN would try to get you to believe otherwise.

1)Jesus was black
2)Ronald Regan was the devil
3)The government is lying to you about 9/11

Thank you and goodnight!

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

NUCLEARDAY

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:43 PM

Likely might have been nice to see the Alliance more often portrayed in a "good" light. Though on the other hand, it's also quite clear that we're not dealing with another "Evil Empire" either. I could go on and on (and often do... :)

I'll just say it likely would have been disastrous for the Alliance to fall apart. I think even Mal would agree with that. I don't think the Browncoats were anti-alliance so much as they were anti-unification (much like the Civil War.) It was more about the choice to be left alone than anything?

But I digress... at least there's the unfilmed script for the Dead or Alive episode, where you see ex-'coats portrayed as the evil terrorists.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 7:02 PM

I think it was all summed up by the "Cry Baby" scene in the (original) Serenity.

Mal and Co. take advantage of the Alliance's benevolence. The commander says "Our gunships would never get back to us in time. Let's go help these people."

These people = the signal from the cry baby indicating that is was a "stranded transport full of people"

The Alliance helps when and where it can, kinda like the U.S., but it also has it's dirty secrets ("It was for the best, to make people safer.") like the U.S.

Additionally, I believe the whole reason for the Independent uprising was that the Alliance WAS NOT big enough to control all the planets and moons, and really didn't care what the border worlds were doing until the Border Worlds decided they wanted out. In an effort to keep planets closer to the core from getting the same idea, they tried to crush the rebellion before it began (a preemptive move) and that proved folly as the Independent movement used it as a "Look look! See the violence inherent in the system! Help help! We're bein' repressed!" and it only fueled the cause. I reckon Shadow is where it began, and where the Alliance tried to end it, hence why Mal is so hell-bent on getting over on the Alliance any way he can.

They're far better good, than they are bad, but like every government, there is both sides to them. No government will ever be successful for very long if they try to be totalitarian OR utopian. There has to be concessions to both.

All that being said, I say gut the Purplebellies! Browncoats will rise again! AHHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

BWAH!
TCM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Avail yourself of my trade!
Original Firefly T-shirts, posters, mugs and more at:
http://www.cafepress.com/10thcrew
*Download my Firefly Games for FREE at
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=13&t=12622
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In or near Ohio? Join us!
http://p097.ezboard.com/bohiofireflyfans
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly-ohio

SINGATE

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 7:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
1)Jesus was black
2)Ronald Regan was the devil
3)The government is lying to you about 9/11

Good to see another Boondocks fan around here. Easily one of the best shows on TV.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

STAKETHELURK

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 7:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TenthCrewMember:
Additionally, I believe the whole reason for the Independent uprising was that the Alliance WAS NOT big enough to control all the planets and moons, and really didn't care what the border worlds were doing until the Border Worlds decided they wanted out.

Out of what? US Civil War parallels aside, the Unification War was just that--a war to unite the planets that were not yet under Alliance control. It wasn't a rebellion, it was a war of expansion on the part of the Alliance. Justified, perhaps, because the Alliance felt it could solve the "barbarism" of the Outer Planets. Your notion of a preemptive attack to avert a rebellion, while intriguing (and I definitely agree that Shadow was a key point in the war), doesn't jive with the information we've been given.

And I think another round of Purplebellies vs. Browncoats would be disastrous. At this point, however, I do think betrayed idealists within the Alliance (like the Op) could initiate and intra-Alliance war against the shadowy hardliners who've been betraying the Alliance's ideals. That would probably solve many of the problems that have been plaguing the Alliance's approach to things.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 8:03 PM

"Mal's politics are very reactionary and 'Big government is bad' and 'Don't interfere with my life', and sometimes he's wrong–because sometimes the Alliance is America, this beautiful shining light of democracy. But sometimes the Alliance is America in Vietnam: we have a lot of petty politics, we are way out of our league and we have no right to control these people. And yet! Sometimes the Alliance is America in Nazi Germany. And Mal can't see that, because he was a Vietnamese."
Joss Whedon

Though I said something similar to this not too long ago and man was I flamed for it by the 'real' 'loyal' Browncoats. Made me laugh it did, oh how I did laugh.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

1 2 NEXT PAGE