RE:
POSTED BY: Hanswurst
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 1, 2006 20:58
VIEWED: 8950
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PS
I don't understand how River reads minds. Anyone? All answers welcome, even simple ones.
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She's obviously tapping into more of the power of her brain than anyone else, I don't think we're really meant to understand how. The secrets of the human mind are largely unknown to us. Joss has said that psychics is the furthest he was willing to go with the sci-fi nature of his show, and by the way he responds to science questions I'm sure he doesn't have a real explanation for how she does it. She just does.
edit: She reads more than minds too, has a real sense for her surroundings. Like in Out of Gas when they had the fire, she knew before anyone else did.
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You (and Joss) make some excellent points, esp. about the human mind's possibilities being largely unknown to us. This was exactly my point re Mr. Universe. I must, however, disagree--and I'm sure Joss would too--with your notion that we ("we" who? George Bush? The stone carvers of the island of Yap? The late George Washington?) are not "meant" to understand our own minds. That idea smacks a bit too much of absolutism, which I in my subjectivity, reject. Again, like everything we've been discussing, it's all subjective--even Joss has subjectivity which affects his biases.
As far as River goes, the outsider as possessor of special powers goes a long way back culturally--everything from the Messiah to the Wise Fool. So, in fact, does the idea of a living human essense embedding itself in an inanimate object (See the Jewish myth of the Golem--interesting in light of Mr. Universe's Jewishness).
One might say we're not meant to understand how Mr. Universe got his voice into his robot girl; some people are satisfied with that. I'm not, and I don't take anyone's artistic interpretation as gospel (even Joss's).
Quote:
Originally posted by mattcoz:
She's obviously tapping into more of the power of her brain than anyone else, I don't think we're really meant to understand how. The secrets of the human mind are largely unknown to us. Joss has said that psychics is the furthest he was willing to go with the sci-fi nature of his show, and by the way he responds to science questions I'm sure he doesn't have a real explanation for how she does it. She just does.
edit: She reads more than minds too, has a real sense for her surroundings. Like in Out of Gas when they had the fire, she knew before anyone else did.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hanswurst:
You (and Joss) make some excellent points, esp. about the human mind's possibilities being largely unknown to us. This was exactly my point re Mr. Universe. I must, however, disagree--and I'm sure Joss would too--with your notion that we ("we" who? George Bush? The stone carvers of the island of Yap? The late George Washington?) are not "meant" to understand our own minds. That idea smacks a bit too much of absolutism, which I in my subjectivity, reject. Again, like everything we've been discussing, it's all subjective--even Joss has subjectivity which affects his biases.
As far as River goes, the outsider as possessor of special powers goes a long way back culturally--everything from the Messiah to the Wise Fool. So, in fact, does the idea of a living human essense embedding itself in an inanimate object (See the Jewish myth of the Golem--interesting in light of Mr. Universe's Jewishness).
One might say we're not meant to understand how Mr. Universe got his voice into his robot girl; some people are satisfied with that. I'm not, and I don't take anyone's artistic interpretation as gospel (even Joss's).
I didn't mean we aren't meant to understand our minds, like ever, I meant we aren't meant to understand how River does what she does in the movie. Don't really have to, just needs to be believable that she can. I also don't mean to say that transferring his "essence" is impossible, just that it's not necessary and doesn't really fit. In my opinion, when she repeated the message to the operative it showed without a doubt that it was just a recording. As Freud would say, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Whether Mr. Universe's transfer of his essense to the robot is "necessary" is, again, a personal judgment call on your part. I actually do find it necessary for my enjoyment of the story, so I'm not sure how to square that with your assuring me that it is unnecessary. Other than of course that two people who disagree on a topic can both be right. Or is that too relativistic?
For example, regarding your quote of Freud, the operative word is "sometimes". Sometimes a cigar IS more than a cigar (say) to Mrs. Freud, while it may be just a cigar to her husband. Does that make one of them wrong?
Quote:
Originally posted by mattcoz:Quote:
Originally posted by Hanswurst:
You (and Joss) make some excellent points, esp. about the human mind's possibilities being largely unknown to us. This was exactly my point re Mr. Universe. I must, however, disagree--and I'm sure Joss would too--with your notion that we ("we" who? George Bush? The stone carvers of the island of Yap? The late George Washington?) are not "meant" to understand our own minds. That idea smacks a bit too much of absolutism, which I in my subjectivity, reject. Again, like everything we've been discussing, it's all subjective--even Joss has subjectivity which affects his biases.
As far as River goes, the outsider as possessor of special powers goes a long way back culturally--everything from the Messiah to the Wise Fool. So, in fact, does the idea of a living human essense embedding itself in an inanimate object (See the Jewish myth of the Golem--interesting in light of Mr. Universe's Jewishness).
One might say we're not meant to understand how Mr. Universe got his voice into his robot girl; some people are satisfied with that. I'm not, and I don't take anyone's artistic interpretation as gospel (even Joss's).
I didn't mean we aren't meant to understand our minds, like ever, I meant we aren't meant to understand how River does what she does in the movie. Don't really have to, just needs to be believable that she can. I also don't mean to say that transferring his "essence" is impossible, just that it's not necessary and doesn't really fit. In my opinion, when she repeated the message to the operative it showed without a doubt that it was just a recording. As Freud would say, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hanswurst:
Whether Mr. Universe's transfer of his essense to the robot is "necessary" is, again, a personal judgment call on your part. I actually do find it necessary for my enjoyment of the story
You couldn't enjoy the story if he just recorded the message? That's a lot to hang on one small detail. I'm in no way trying to take any enjoyment away from you.
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The first thing I thought of was the Buffybot, and that chick robot reminded me of her. And ugh, yes, I do remember what spike did to her, alas, Mr. Universe could have done that too. Knowing Joss, yes....sounds like the same!
"Smells like crotch"
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