Simon Knew in Safe

POSTED BY: Dewrastler
UPDATED: Thursday, March 2, 2006 00:00
VIEWED: 5746
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RABIT

Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mattcoz:
What bugs me is that Simon didn't rescue River, unless he was lying the whole time.

Personally, I thought he was lying. As has already been stated, why would he trust these people? He didn't know them and - at the time - didn't really want to. Why tell them what he did?

He could have - off camera - told them the truth, later, or just not thought about it and not told them. Either way, it doesn't really change anything...

But that's just my opinion!

Rabit

EARLYSUMMER

Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:16 AM

Quote:
mattcoz wrote:

What bugs me is that Simon didn't rescue River, unless he was lying the whole time.

From the script:

Quote:

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ZOE
How did you do it?

SIMON
Money. And luck -- for two years I couldn't get near her, but I was contacted by some men, some underground movement. They said she was in danger, that the government was playing with her brain. If I funded them they could sneak her out in cryo. Get her to Boros and from there, I could take her... wherever.

MAL
How did you know it wasn't a scam?

SIMON
I didn't. Until you opened that box.
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I just watched that scene over again and I can't find those last 2 lines anywhere. After Simon's Money and luck speach, it's Inara who says something next:

Inara: "Will she be alright?"
Simon: "I don't know if she'll be alright"

EARLYSUMMER

Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:21 AM

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mattcoz:
What bugs me is that Simon didn't rescue River, unless he was lying the whole time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When did he say he didn't rescue River. He said the Mercs snuck her in Cryo to Persephone, but I always thought that was to smuggle her "out of the country" so to speak. He never specifically says how (in detail) he got her out of the lab facility.

MATTCOZ

Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:21 AM

Well he did say the part about paying the men to sneak her out in cryo and deliver her to.. well actually it was Persephone but that's not really the point. I guess he could be lying, but I don't like that explanation. Paying men to get her out isn't any better than getting her out himself. Why would she even be in cryo if he rescued her like he did in the movie? I just try to ignore that scene and enjoy the rest, which isn't too hard. :)

SIGMANUNKI

Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dewrastler:

My point is that he knew she was a psychic and he was trying to hide it from everyone else. This is most evident in the BDM, but it is there in the series as well.

I'm thinking that he was aware just as Mal and Book made mention of it in Objects in Space. But still, at that point, this was probably just a hunch.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:48 AM

There's been a whole thread on that question, but ask yourself this:

If he didn't rescue her why would she be in cryo?

I can think of no reason for her to be in cryo that would apply if he didn't get her out and not if he did.

He said that they'd sneak her out in cryo and deliver her to Persphone, and that is what they did. Hardly needs explanation, but if you'd like a probable one try this on: River was a marked fugitive, the box was not.

River was taken off of a core world, its got sensors and where there ain't censors there's Feds. Parading River around would be the same as giving her back.

Only after she was out of the core could she afford to be on her feet. All of this we know from the series, what we saw in the movie hardly changes it.

EARLYSUMMER

Sunday, February 26, 2006 2:38 AM

Quote:

christhecynic wrote:

There's been a whole thread on that question, but ask yourself this:

If he didn't rescue her why would she be in cryo?

I can think of no reason for her to be in cryo that would apply if he didn't get her out and not if he did.

She said that they'd sneak her out in cryo and deliver her to Persphone, and that is what they did. Hardly needs explanation, but if you'd like a probable one try this on: River was a marked fugitive, the box was not.

River was taken off of a core world, its got sensors and where there ain't censors there's Feds. Parading River around would be the same as giving her back.

Only after she was out of the core could she afford to be on her feet. All of this we know from the series, what we saw in the movie hardly changes it.

That's exactly how I see it and kindof the point I was trying to make, you just write it better than I do.

"I am very smart"

ASARIAN

Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

Well the biggest example is Trash and Objects in Space.

Simon believed River immediately when she told him Jayne betrayed them on Ariel without any hesitation even though the sources was her saying she knew he was afraid that they'd find out.

It's obviously a psychic thing and he didn't hesitate. Even if he hadn't known before he knew by that point.

Yet in Objects in Space he denied her being psychic in more or less the same way he had in Safe. Simon was never meant to be an honest person, and it was clear that he was intentionally hiding the truth about River from the crew.

I don't disagree on any particular point.

Except the part where Simon was not meant to be honest. I think we do well to consider that the story line simply more or less demands that the secrets about River, and her full potential, are revealed one at a time; or at least not all at the same time. :) I do not think we can really fault Simon for that. Joss, perhaps. :) But not him either, as I said, because building on a successful story arc really requires us to be in mystery about what River can do in full.

There are only actually two things we know for certain she can do. She can kill with her brain, and break men's hearts. :) In a good way, of course.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

MATTCOZ

Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:41 AM

You can try to rationalize it all you want, but it was clearly implied in the series(and especially the original script) that he paid men to get her out and that he didn't do it himself. I'm sure Joss had his reasons for making the change, and it probably made a lot more sense to explain it that way for movie audiences. I really don't have a problem with it, so I'm not going to fool myself into thinking it was that way the whole time.

AUSSAY

Sunday, February 26, 2006 12:03 PM

Hiya, just new to Firefly and this site so excuse any "n00bness"

I felt in the series that although Simon would have had thoughts about River's psychic talents, I don't think he ever admitted it to himself. HIs intentions seem not only to protect River but try and return her to her normal state and admitting that she now had psyhcic abilities would be not something he would want to deal with

I think he tries to convince himslef that it is just River's brillant mind and she is using intuition.

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