Humpty-Dumpty and all the King's horses
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Friday, February 24, 2006 22:47
VIEWED: 3294
PAGE 3 of 6
These people can use some freedom too:
Quote:
Those who are kidnapped by Kony's army live a life of horror. While reporting this story, we met Alice, a 19-year-old girl who recently managed to escape after eight years in captivity. She told me blood chilling stories of events no child deserves to witness. She spoke of how the group she was in was made to kill a child who tried to escape by biting him to death, of how she was made to cut up and cook the body of a village chief killed by the rebels and forced to eat the meat from his body, and of how she was raped and eventually had a child from the man who defiled her. She showed us the physical scars of her time as a child soldier -- bullet holes on her leg and shrapnel wounds on her chest.
www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Signym,
My favorite was (no offense) women's rights. I know some people care about this issue, but there has yet to be a war over the right to not wear a burka yet.
Other choice statements from our president "Osama Bin Laden doesn't know the joy of Hannuhkah" or something like that. It topped the "In the Russian language, there isn't even a word for freedom."
I think breaking Iraq into three fundementalist theocracies that hate America is probably the best option.
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DT:
I wasn't particularly clear last time, but I'd like an answer if possible:
What do you mean we failed to defend Hong Kong?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
DT:
I wasn't particularly clear last time, but I'd like an answer if possible:
What do you mean we failed to defend Hong Kong?
Why, because it's all our fault, of course. We should have left Iraq alone, because we're not the world police, but we should have stopped the various genocides in Africa because we should be the world police. It's wrong to wiretap people making phone calls to Al Qaeda operatives overseas, but OK to stop a legitimate business from operating here just because their homebase is in an Arab country. Democracy is a fraud and a failure, and something else undefined is a better system. If a tree falls in the forest it's undoubtedly because George Bush himself ordered it cut down just to crush a baby deer. We're evil, EVIL, don't you hear?
Sorry, Citizen. Sometimes the massive U.S. bashing that goes on here just gets a bit too much for me. You'd think these people could at least keep their rants internally consistant.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Why, because it's all our fault, of course. We should have left Iraq alone, because we're not the world police, but we should have stopped the various genocides in Africa because we should be the world police. It's wrong to wiretap people making phone calls to Al Qaeda operatives overseas, but OK to stop a legitimate business from operating here just because their homebase is in an Arab country. Democracy is a fraud and a failure, and something else undefined is a better system. If a tree falls in the forest it's undoubtedly because George Bush himself ordered it cut down just to crush a baby deer. We're evil, EVIL, don't you hear?
Sorry, Citizen. Sometimes the massive U.S. bashing that goes on here just gets a bit too much for me. You'd think these people could at least keep their rants internally consistant.
What you are doing, Geezer, is not presenting the full argument in order to make the side you don't like look like a pack of hypocrites. This isn't even my argument on the issue, but I'll break down what you're doing so it's nice and clear to everyone.
You take:
We should have left Iraq alone, because we aren't the world police. If, in fact we were the world police, there would be a hell of a lot better places to start, like Darfur, where they need it most. We should have gone there instead.
And turn it into:
We should have left Iraq alone, because we're not the world police, but we should have stopped the various genocides in Africa because we should be the world police.
Basically, you take "cops should stop a murderer before a petty thief" and turn it into "no crime is worse than any other," as if the two things were equal.
Then you proceed to muddy the wiretapping issue (ala your Fox news talking points) and the Dubai deal. If he was just wiretapping overseas calls that were suspicious, why didn't he get a warrant posthumously like you are allowed to do under FISA law that are always granted? Answer: He wasn't just wiretapping overseas calls, and wasn't just wiretapping Al-Q, and that my friend violates the 4th amendment. As to the Dubai deal, the issue isn't necessarily that a foreign company controls the ports, it's which company and country it is. The UAE controls that company, and its human rights record is atrocious, not to mention that 2 of the 19 hijackers that GWB can't seem to stop mentioning came from there. Either 9/11 and human rights matter to the admin. or they don't; and if they don't, he needs to quit making Iraq sound like a huge picnic for human rights.
Then, as if that wasn't enough for you, you go ahead and say this little gem:
Democracy is a fraud and a failure, and something else undefined is a better system.
Democracy itself isn't a fraud and a failure; imposing democracy by force, manipulating an election, and watching a country that we should have known better than to invade fall into civil war is a goddamn failure. Is there a better system? How about listening to your smartest advisors (Powell, Shinseki -sp?-) when they tell you how to go in there instead of a bunch of simpering yes-men (or, better yet, why not listen to the vast majority of historians and mid-east scholars who predicted how this whole thing was gonna turn out before GWB went in there).
I don't ever bash the U.S. I bash stupid people, and there were at least 58 million of them in 2004. Thankfully, I think some are finally getting some sense.
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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Quote:
Why, because it's all our fault, of course... We're evil, EVIL, don't you hear?
And from the other thread:
Quote:The nice thing about Geezer is that you can always count on him to put words in other people's mouths. Not that I'm saying he's intellectually and rhetorically dishonest or anything. I'm sure he truly thinks he's making a point.
So you're saying all Muslims are terrorists and are not to be trusted? How enlightened of you.
tee hee
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Citzen,
This is the sort of statement that I take as a partisan picking-a-fight, and I've learned to avoid them.
Here's the simple:
1. Britain leased the territory from the emperor for 99 years.
2. Afterwords, China fell, being slowly conquered by the soviet union, as an occupied territory then called "the soviet socialist republic of china."
3. After the Korean war, the new communist china split from the soviets. The process was slow, but before 1950, it would be more honest to call them one country, after 1960 or so, they were two. In between it was less clear.
4. Then Mao went about conquering all of the former imperial possessions, now independent or occupied.
5. The lease ended and britain withdrew, even though the party that it had leased from no longer existed.
6. Hong Kong took the position that they were now independent. Legally, they were correct. Technically speaking, Hong Kong at that moment became imperial china, and since there was nothing else left of it, they were independent.
7. China made it clear that they would invade. They moved in troops. No one opposed them because of the sheer numbers, but not because of popular support for the idea.
The logic that said Hong Kong should be chinese went like this: You agressive societ communists have conquered almost all of a former empire, so now you can have one of the few parts you haven't conquered yet, for free.
This is the logic the Nazis used to claim austria, czechoslovakia and poland. We united everything charlemagne had into one country, now we get the rest for free.
At the time the Nazis invaded Austria, popular support for the German govt. in Austria was at 2%. That's 1/2 of our 4% support for the Saudi Govt., the least popular foreign regime to Americans. The Autrians considered opposing, but when they saw the size of the german army they realized that it was utterly hopeless.
This is the situation Taiwan finds itself in right now. Taiwan, like Hong Kong, is and has always been our ally. Taiwan is also not historically part of China. In fact, it has only been fully part of china for 8 years while it was occupied by china in WWII. That's like saying France is a legitimate part of Germany. There's one other note. A few hundred years ago, taiwan was conquered by a chinese general who ruled for a few years, I don't think it was very many. But since, after the conquest, he then refused to take orders from the emperor, it was more like william of normandy, and not like being chinese. Technically, I think Taiwan has spent more time as an occupied territory of Japan than of China, though it hasn't been either for long.
The 'job' of the US is to protect the US and it's allies, not the rights of sunnis to be represented equally in a majority shiia state. I can see where Iraq is to some extent britain's responsibility. But it wasn't ours. It is now. Taiwan is our responsibility, and the proper thing to do, the only sane thing to do was to militarily oppose china. China isn't going war, don't worry about that. But a show of strength was in order. America showed weakness, and so is weak.
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I'm plenty consistant enough, and if I contradict myself very well, I contradict myself. Consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds.
You follow which ever way your Beloved Leader point you.
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7%,
Thanks for the support, I was much too angry to make a rational deconstruction. I think I'm going to start adopting the whole Sheeple concept. But it has to be on both sides. There are an awful lot of left wing sheeple also. But Beloved Leader say something and it's gospel. These guys thought 1984 was a citizen's handbook.
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I'm replying specifically to Geezer, because Geezer is my special project.
Quote:... Massive "USA bashing"... Believe it or not, I have nothing against the USA. I have a lot against the weasely, lying, greedy, corrupt sociopathic Bush & Co Admin who screwed the pooch in Iraq, bankrupted the USA, and set the whole world against us.
Sometimes the massive U.S. bashing that goes on here just gets a bit too much for me.
Geezer, Geezer, Geezer... when will you learn to make the distinction? Bush is not the USA. Amazingly, NO President is the USA. Halliburton is not the USA. Wow. Cosmic thought if you can encompass it, isn't it?
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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