Newbie has two questions (help yon browncoats!)
POSTED BY: tealcandtrip
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 1, 2006 14:23
VIEWED: 4670
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It's just my initial take on the scenes. I just wanted to see what other people, who may have thought or debated the issue before thought. No offense, and I'm not particularly cemented into any viewpoint yet.
"I also hear that there's something called Firefly, which is either a canceled science-fiction television show or a new religion, I'm not clear on that. Either way, prayers for the resurrection are involved." – Lore Sjoberg
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Quote:
Originally posted by tealcandtrip:
It's just my initial take on the scenes. I just wanted to see what other people, who may have thought or debated the issue before thought. No offense, and I'm not particularly cemented into any viewpoint yet.
Eh, we live for these discusions. Well I do at any rate and enough other people get involved with them that I suspect I'm not alone. Hearing other viewpoints is never not good.
David
"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon
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I always got the impression that the Tams thought that River was taken care of at the academy and that Simon was just throwing things out of proportion. Do you remember what their mother said when he confronted the Tams about the letters? It was something to the effect of "Oh, she's just playing another one of her games with you".
Part of this perception could be because they were raised by a nanny or governess (as stated above) and that the Tams didn't really know River as well as Simon. Therefore, since he knew her better, he picked up on her pleas for help while they were pretty much blind to them.
So because they truly didn't think that she was in trouble, the conversation with the father trying to keep Simon from saving River was more of him saying "you've got something good here, don't throw it away for no good reason."
Social standing is also big with the Tams, but I don't actually think that they just abandoned their daughter...They were just too occupied with other things to actually realize she was in trouble.
Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoe: You live on a spaceship, dear.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rhyianan:
I always got the impression that the Tams thought that River was taken care of at the academy and that Simon was just throwing things out of proportion. Do you remember what their mother said when he confronted the Tams about the letters? It was something to the effect of "Oh, she's just playing another one of her games with you".
Part of this perception could be because they were raised by a nanny or governess (as stated above) and that the Tams didn't really know River as well as Simon. Therefore, since he knew her better, he picked up on her pleas for help while they were pretty much blind to them.
So because they truly didn't think that she was in trouble, the conversation with the father trying to keep Simon from saving River was more of him saying "you've got something good here, don't throw it away for no good reason."
Social standing is also big with the Tams, but I don't actually think that they just abandoned their daughter...They were just too occupied with other things to actually realize she was in trouble.
Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoe: You live on a spaceship, dear.
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I'll agree with that up to a point. I do believe they loved her, it's obvious by seeing that they would let her go to a school of her choice. But my point in that they wanted to remain ignorant of any possible trouble shows in that they never really tried to find out.
Ok, so yes they thought River was playing a little game with Simon. I think of kids who go to camp and scream at their parents to come get them one day, then write how wonderful a time they're having and hate to leave. But for Simon's sake, just to ease his mind, I would have expected them to at least check up on her. Maybe they did, maybe the Academy made a censored tape showing that River loved it there and was excelling. Maybe they talked to the officials of the school who marvelled over her brilliance and gave them a glowing report; my point being that they were willing to believe that things were fine, that nothing could be wrong, and that thier son and daughter were playing a game, and let it rest. Bad example, but there are people today that are willing to turn their heads than believe someone close to them are hurting their children.
But as parents you would think, seeing how upset Simon is over the so obvious clues, that they would at least consider the possibility something may be wrong. The man went to the level of talking with people from the underground. How much more proof do those parents need to see there may have been a problem?
I stand by blissful ignorance. They love them for sure, but an enemy of The Alliance they do not want to be. And after the break out you know they dis-owned the both of them. *sigh* People, even in families, can be short sighted.
If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting
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Regarding the Tracey question, it is possible that Mal and Zoe are the only ones left from a particular platoon (an organization of perhaps 30 soldiers) and that Tracey was a member of a different platoon in the same company (an organization composed of perhaps three platoons). So they could fight together in the same (larger) unit, while Mal and Zoe could be the only ones left from the smaller sub-unit.
Also, as casualties mount in a war, shattered remnants of units might be combined into battle-worthy units. So, perhaps Mal and Zoe are the only ones left from the platoon as it was at the START of the war, and maybe Tracey joined them later.
TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree
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A few more thoughts:
Here's the transcript from the deleted scene:
SIMON:Mal was there with you.
ZOE: He was my sergeant. In command of thirty-odd grunts -- five days in, there were so many officers dead he commanded two thousand. Kept us
together, kept us fighting, kept us sane. By the time the fighting was over he had maybe four hundred still intact.
SIMON:That's a hell of a --
ZOE:I said the fighting was over. But you see they left us there. Wounded, and sick, and near to mad as can still walk and talk. Both sides left
us there while they 'negotiated the peace'. For a week. And we just kept dying. When they finally sent in Medships, he had about a hundred and
fifty left, and of our original platoon, just me.
Now I'm not a military person at all, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But I read this as: at the BoS, Mal was sergeant of a platoon of thirty privates. We know at some point in the war (less than a year before the Battle of Serenity, my guess is 6-8 months before), Tracey was one of a private under Sergeant Reynolds. In the Message, Tracey actually refers to Mal as Sarge when their CO goes all cowardly lion.
So I have to go with Dave's theory that Tracey was too badly wounded at Du-Khang to be one of the thirty at Battle of Serenity.
"I also hear that there's something called Firefly, which is either a canceled science-fiction television show or a new religion, I'm not clear on that. Either way, prayers for the resurrection are involved." – Lore Sjoberg
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My personal feeling is that the Tams (senior) were in denial about River's situation. They simply were unable to believe that an Alliance school would harm their daughter.
Let's bring it into a more familiar context. Note: I'm not trying to make any sort of political point, just to give an example.
Think of Gabriel Tam as a prominent local attorney (of our time) who is active in many civic organizations, including (perhaps) the currently in-office political party. He sincerely believes in the things that party stands for.
Now he's approached by someone high up in that party and told that his daughter has been accepted into a highly selective new school for gifted children that's run by a consortium of the party and several megacorporations (say, Microsoft and DuPont). Naturally he's thrilled and honored by this distinction. He happily agrees to send her and brags about it to all his friends (who are also active in the party organization).
So a few months go by, and all of a sudden he's confronted by his son with a wild claim that his daughter is being abused and harmed at school. His evidence? Some ambiguous comments in the girl's letters.
Now, how is Gabriel Tam likely to respond to these claims?
I don't have any problem at all believing that he'd react just exactly as he does in 'Safe'. The idea that HIS government would do anything bad to HIS daughter is simply unthinkable. It's much easier to conclude that his son is stressed out at work and having a touch of paranoia. He'd be more likely to send Simon to a shrink than take his claim seriously.
As to the issue of Tracey, I'm with those who suggest that he was either injured or had transferred out by the time of Serenity Valley. If his wounds at Du Khang (or elsewhere) were serious enough to land him in a hospital for a while, it wouldn't be at all unusual for him to be attached to a new unit upon his release.
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I don't disagree on any particular point.
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One thought that I had concerning the Tams feelings towards River. There are some cultures that value boys above girls. Perhaps what happened to Simon mattered more to them than what happened to River.
Just a thought...
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Ooh ooh ooh, in particular, doesn't the Chinese culture value boys over girls? Americans seem to be going towards an ever more equal boy-girl culture (even if we're not there yet, you have to admit it's better than it used to be). I wonder how merging with a culture that values men over women would have an affect on that.
Saffron, though her particular story was a lie, makes it clear that the handling of women is enough like property on some worlds that her story was plausible. And Mal is somewhat surprised, though he does accept that it could happen, that some men would even kill wives that don't please them.
Then again we have Zoe and Wash... and it's clear who wears the pants in that relationship. Still, is Zoe so strong in part because she had to overcome those prejudices early in life?
"I also hear that there's something called Firefly, which is either a canceled science-fiction television show or a new religion, I'm not clear on that. Either way, prayers for the resurrection are involved." – Lore Sjoberg
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Doncoat,
The scenario you described also is similar to the attitude that most children received when they complained that a priest sexually abused them (if they ever did complain)
The parents likely would react, "Father such and such would NEVER hurt my son, don't you say such things" and we now know how much was going on.
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