An analysis of the illusion of freedom

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, April 24, 2026 16:13
VIEWED: 7512
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DREAMTROVE

Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:38 PM

I guess my reaction was due to the persistant nature. Rue had countered my posts occassionally, but not persistantly one after another. I guess my bruises from fletch color my vision, still, just callin' as I sees it.

FLETCH2

Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:59 PM

I disagree. One of the problems people have in assessing the human condition is that they refer it back to themselves. I suppose the argument goes “I’m human, I have these motivations therefore so should everyone else.” I’m afraid that is a self-delusion. Coming to the conclusion that people are lazy/stupid/ignorant because they don’t share your obsessions just takes self-delusion and makes it arrogance.

People are concerned chiefly about things that affect themselves and their families. Use eminent domain to drive a 40 lane super highway through “Anytown USA” and the locals will protest. If however the track was going to run that highway through the middle of “Nexttown USA” how many Anytowners do you think would be protesting? Very few I suspect. In fact most likely Anytown would be lobbying for an off ramp so that they could see some business benefits from the road.

You probably think that that makes them small minded and ignorant but I say it’s just not that important to the day to day running of their lives. That was true way back before “Cyclops’s in living rooms” or any of that. Those of us that think any of this is a big deal are the mutants here, the rest of humanity look after themselves and their loved ones. A lot of folks reached into their pockets to help those people in NOLA affected by Katrina but a LOT more bitched about the rise in petrol prices. Why? Because if you didn’t live in the south Katrina was an abstract concept that didn’t affect you and yours, that extra 20c at the pumps however, that was personal.

The reason folks don’t protest the war. We haven’t lost that many kids, very few people have lost a loved one or someone they know. A dead GI remains for them an abstract concept. Institute a draft and potentially place little Jimmy in the firing line and protests will go up. Had the US been able to fight Vietnam with a purely volunteer army there would still be GI’s in Saigon.

The economy? Makes no difference how big the deficit is, it’s an abstract concept, push up mortgage rates 20 points, throw dad out of work or watch fuel costs sky rocket and that would be a different story.

People want two big things from governments, they want security and economic stability. Anything more is gravy (or fat if you are conservative.) People only get upset over “unjust laws” that affect them. PN apparently has a problem with the drink drive laws because it restricts his freedom of action to do something he would want to do. I don’t drink and drive, as a result I don’t think the law unjust, in fact I don’t even think of it much at all.

That famous quote about “they rounded up the Jews but I was not a Jew and I said nothing,” that is the nature of people that was their nature then it remains so today. They have lives and family to be getting on with. That does not make them stupid.

HAYWARD79

Sunday, February 19, 2006 2:43 AM

"And yet strangely, altho people watch TV to "unwind" and "relax", the more people watch TV the more agitated and depressed they feel, and the harder time they have falling asleep no matter WHAT the content. I used to think that Marshall McLuhan (The Medium is the Massage) was full of bull but now I think of TV as velvet handcuffs or a mass drug. So add TV to the "illusion of freedom": it makes you feel that you can choose your experience but it modifies you instead."

Why not add the Internet, in which you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time. It's hilarious that you would, on the one hand, bash TV as some sort of imposed "illusion of freedom," and then spend so much time and effort posting and reading on a fan forum of critically acclaimed TV show.

Additionally, no one is arguing that we have any semblance of "perfect freedom" here in US. But to siggest that freedom is merely an illusion in this country, or that money/class alone determines how much freedom you have, is such a narrow and ignorant conception of this country that it is amazing to see it expressed here. Again, I have to ask, to what state of freedom are you comparing the present situation in the US? If you are talking about the Hobbesian or Lockian "state of nature," then you really should be on your hands and knees thanking God or fate or whomever that we do NOT have "perfect freedom."

I may have been more inclined to agree with some of your sentiments before I spent a significant amount of time in other countries. It helped to realize that the freedoms we enjoy in this country, while very far from perfect, are not mere illusions at all. Normally, the people (like some of the people posting on this thread) who complain about "the system", or some meaningless, nebulous idea such as "illusion of freedom" are compensating for their own short-comings, placing blame on the government because of what they are unable to accomplish. The best advice I give you is that if you really want to grow as a person and exercise the freedoms available to you, you need to stop blaming the system and exert some effort.

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:07 AM

I think that the content, firefly, itself, is not the problem. Neither is the internet. It's the vast array of TV programming designed to waste you time, and keep you misinformed.

If there was a sight to download stuff to watch, you'd only download the best stuff, and ignore the rest. On TV, you are left hanging on.

In fact, I think that's it. TV has master the art of perpetual mediocrity.

TV is entertainment, but not good entertainment. It rejects anything truly good usually with haste, because anything too good threatens the line up. It wants to attract viewers to other programs, so If people sign on the watch "the excellent hour" they will not then later tune in to the "sort of okay hour" But watchers of the "somewhat funny hour" will.

Think about everything Tv does. It's porn, it's not wild orgy sex fest prostitutes on call teen masturbation porn, it's slightly titilating sex shows, designed to keep the viewer slightly excited so they will keep watching forever. This, for both boys and girls, is probably best personified in MTV.

The news is dangling non stories. Rather than give you direct access to the news, as the internet does, where you seek out what you want and you're done, TV is carefully sturctured, again, to waste your time. They dangle 12 stories at you and keep saying "coming up later, the latest updates from Iraq." They don't have to be structured that way. They could say "And now on CNN-14, the latest updates from Iraq," as this technology has been available for 20 years. But then you wouldn't watch "Paris Hilton's new dog." If you don't watch Paris Hilton's new dog, then you don't subscribe to the social myth that you want to be like Paris Hilton, which will send you off in a mindless manner to do whatever they want you to be.

The enless works up fiction, mostly PC propaganda pieces with slight story-like qualities, are designed to keep you waiting for a good one. They're always "sort of watchable" and then once in a while one is "pretty good" and you keep hanging on for more. Always emphasizing quantity over quality, because 12 hours of Jerry Springer is twelve hours of people watching. More ads, more money, and yes I know that TV is a capitalist tool. But that doesn't mean that I can't oppose it. Or that I would support it if it became the propagnda machine for conservative family values instead of liberal self-righteousness.

Overall, I don't regret the no-tv decision. It keeps you busy and uninformed. Firefly exists within TV becuase it's the medium avialable for expression. But we need a new one.

FLETCH2

Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:57 AM

Don't actually watch that much TV (loads of channels, nothing on) thanks to the internet I get news from the BBC same as always.

CAUSAL

Monday, February 20, 2006 4:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What I think of as "The Illusion of Freedom":

Charmin or Scott
Burger King or McDonalds
WalMart or Target
channel 11 or channel 2
minimum wage here or minimum wage there

In Twilight of American Culture, Morris Berman argues (among other things) that the slow decay of Western democracies into something else (mostly likely authoritarian states, on his view) is being aided by the consumerist identity: we define ourselves by what we buy. So I'm not Caleb Keller, Christian, Independent, art/music lover, movie snob, Aristotle/Kant/Adler fan and all-around nerd (Star Wars, Dune, Firefly, BSG)--no, I'm Scott, Burger King, Target, Channel 11, minimum wage here-ish. Of course, defining myself via consumerism numbs me to what has real value and perpetuates the economic hegemony. Fer cryin' out loud--Bill Gates has personal wealth equal to that of the lower 40% of Americans combined. Why does that not register? Because I'm busy convincing myself that drinking Aquafina makes me hip, and wearing Axe makes me sexy.

Also, in Amusing Ourselves to Death, Neil Postman makes a convincing case that our addiction to entertainment is actually hindering our ability to think and process information in complex ways--instead we've been programmed to expect to be amused 24/7, which of course, bombards us with consumerist messages.

Oh, and nice side-swipe at Cheney, Chris.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

DREAMTROVE

Monday, February 20, 2006 5:38 AM

I think Postman's a bit of an alarmist, but he does have a point. I'm not going to join you on the down with capitalism, or course, but I think people aren't really defined this way. It did come out very Metro though, you'd fit right in in NY, with a spot on NPR. But I think that we're defined more by our lesser choices, such as firefly fans. This is a consumer choice. I, well, I almost bought firefly, except they never charged me for it, so I got it for free, little bit of a confession there, but I assume they still paid Joss for it. Amazon has so much of my money anyways. I'm a dell owner. Used to be a great company, now it's a good company, but not a great company. I'm over the whole "now it sucks" teen overstatement thing. They make good machines, still, they have awful customer service. Used to be aces. Anyway, but less choices, I use firefox, not ie. But i have windows, not linux. I use amazon, ebay less, but still. Not horridly fond of it. Gmail. I"m still a member of AOL who randomly gave me the screenname. But that's not likely to last. But I'm not sure which choices define me.

Maybe none of them. I'm not sure, it's something to think about.

RUE

Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:53 AM

Geezer,

Quote:
please note who threw out the first "a**hole"

My comment was in response to this - which was a personal attack.

Quote:
If it REALLY troubled you that much you'd be out there doing something about it and not whining on an internet forum.
You have a vote, use it.

Stop slithering.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

RUE

Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:06 AM

TV has an interesting property. In one of my many different hospital jobs I was an EKG technician. I did EKGs on pre-ops (and ER patients, 'codes' etc.)

At the time not many people had ever had an EKG. So when I started attaching wires with wet cold electrode pads, most people made some comment about being electrocuted and asked at least a few questions, unless they were watching TV. If they were watching the boob tube, they barely stopped to notice. They went through a novel experience that was vaguely threatening, with strong stimuli (cold wet pads), and they could hardly be detached from the TV.

It was at the time that I formulated the attaction of TV as a SENSORY experience - it is colorful, it has variation of sound (loud and soft, music and voice), and, with camera cuts back and forth, it is always moving. It also has the simulation of emotion which people tend to focus on.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

RUE

Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:13 AM

I think some people are just born attuned to others. For them the suffering of someone in Guatemala is meaningful. Others have a strong sense of justice. For some it might be a sense of duty. There are probably several paths by which people are involved in things larger than themselves and their family.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind..."

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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