Objects In Space.

POSTED BY: Bishop
UPDATED: Saturday, January 31, 2004 04:45
VIEWED: 12725
PAGE 3 of 5

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT PAGE

PARADIGMSHIFT

Friday, September 12, 2003 6:21 AM

It seemed to me that all of the comments were less directed specifically to River, but had relevance to River in some way. So, in that way, I do think that Book's comment had something to do with RIver. I have always thought that there was something far darker to Book than we have ever seen, and even the stage direction in the script says "(deadly)".

Also, the statement about "innocence" I always viewed as a more general statement than a specific statement about a certain event (a. k. a. Jayne's betrayal of the Tams). It was the first statement that really got me thinking that there is something Book knows about River's predicament than the others (possibly even River herself) don't know.

At least, that's what I got from it.

Paradigm Shift
Because sometimes a radical change is not only necessary, but damn fun!

MANIACNUMBERONE

Friday, September 12, 2003 7:26 AM

I like thinking that she may have been astral projecting, but that still leaves the problem of the gun. How did it get there? Did her body go into Jayne's room, load it and set in on the floor? only to be immediately forgotten by her until she picks it up a few minutes later?
It also leaves the problem of why Simon looked at her during her vision and immediately beforehand. He couldn't have seen a projection.

BISHOP

Friday, September 12, 2003 9:10 AM

Maniac, that is exactly the thing that didnt sit well with me.. the fact that Simon acknowledged her directly, she had to have been physically there. I think that maybe the fact that nobody else acknowledged her presence at all also says something about their feelings towards her, maybe it was written for that effect. Something they problably arent conscious of, but they have a tendancy to often treat her as if she isnt there.

Just my observation anyway.. Aint much, but its enough.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Friday, September 12, 2003 9:10 PM

I went looking for the scene you mentioned with Early and the missing glove... didn't find it. Looked pretty hard too. I saw him land on the ship, and walk along it, and bend down to the ship listening, but he always had his gloves on. And when he comes into the ship, his gloves are still on. So, I must have a different copy than you, or I missed it because I am blind.
I did notice something strange though. When Early first enters the ship, he opens the hatch and a lot of white light spills in. Shouldn't that be black space out there? Where is the light coming from? An antechamber?

BISHOP

Friday, September 12, 2003 9:44 PM

i think the white light is just internal lighting to the airlock.

the scene im talking about (and my copy isnt the greatest quality) is when Jubal is walking on the outside of the ship, when he first lands on it.. he walks to the windows on the front of the mess area (still outside the ship) and crawls up to the window, the camera changes to the inside of the mess area and is looking out the viewport Jubal's head enters the area from the top (he's looking down into the window) and his left hand grasps a pillar between two windows. thats the part where it looks like he is bare handed.. maybe its just my cope, but it looks fleshtone and not red like his glove is in the next scene.

SHEWHOHATHAPEN

Friday, September 12, 2003 11:27 PM

Quote:
This isn't at all thought out, but I always just figured that Kaylee didn't speak up because she didn't have any guilty/angry/upset kind of thoughts in her head at the time. She's a very happy person.

Actually this was my original interpretation of that when I first saw OiS. It was obvious that River was picking up everyone's secret, guilty thoughts and the truths on the other side of the lies they tell, so it really does make perfect sense that Kaylee being such a completely guileless person wouldn't have any such thoughts. Everything that she is is always right there for everyone to see.

The reason I posited my other theory, however, was because she definitely did look angry while River was reading Simon. So my mind reached out for a reason. Of course, it could go back to my theory about River's emotions affecting her readings of other people and as such she perceived Kaylee as being angry at her too, just because she felt guilty.

Quote:
SheWhoHathAPen (and I just now figured out that that isn't your "Egyptian name")

Hehehehe.

Quote:
What do you think of what she tells Mal? "She understands. She doesn't comprehend." Which "she" is speaking, and what is she talking about?

I always saw that as a direct answer to his question about whether she understands the danger of the gun. I think it's an interesting insight into the character inasmuch as I took it as her saying that part of her understands completely what the gun is, how it works, what it does, but at the same time her screwed up perceptions don't allow her to truly grasp the full weight and/or importance of what is happening sometimes. I've always read a slight semantic difference between the words "understand" and "comprehend" and I think it was being played with wonderfully there.

Quote:
I like thinking that she may have been astral projecting, but that still leaves the problem of the gun. How did it get there? Did her body go into Jayne's room, load it and set in on the floor? only to be immediately forgotten by her until she picks it up a few minutes later?
It also leaves the problem of why Simon looked at her during her vision and immediately beforehand. He couldn't have seen a projection.

I always assumed that her astral self wasn't consolidated with her physical self until she actually spoke. In other words, I took it that while her astral self stepped on an imaginary stick leaned over and picked it up, her physical self didn't actually do those things, but rather that whole scenario was a way for River's mind to make some sort of Crazy-River-Sense of how the gun came to be in her hand. So, instead of taking responsibility for going and getting the gun she could her conscious mind could pass it off the same way that she did when Simon asked her where she got the gun: "It was in my hand."

As far as Simon looking at her (Kaylee looks at her too)... I did notice that and I honestly have no real explanation. As it is the astral projection idea didn't occur to me while I was watching the show until after she had seen everyone else because it did seem in that part of the scene that Simon and Kaylee notice her there. Then, River picks up Simon's thought. But that still doesn't explain why as River is leaving their conversation doesn't seem to have paused at all. When they cut from the reading Simon is still very much engrossed in telling the story. Now presumably, while we were seeing in River-Vision he and Kaylee both could have addressed River and who knows what else. But the dialogue indicates that the only thing we missed from Kaylee and Simon's conversation is a little detail of his story: What song he was singing... on the statue of Hippocrates... drunk... and naked.

achem

Anyway, it just doesn't seem like either of them would just ignore River if they were aware of her, and go on with their merriment. Especially when she gets that haunted look on her face and leaves. Simon is the best brother ever, after all. I think he'd have at least asked where she was

BISHOP

Friday, September 12, 2003 11:44 PM

ok, lets focus on what we do know..

the gun belongs to jayne. it was in his weapon area next to his bunk, and was stored unloaded(doesnt make much sense that it would have been unloaded, I think it was loaded, knowing Jayne, and that it maybe just wasnt chambered and this is what Mal was referring to when he said "loaded").

Im still having a problem with the whole astral projection thing, doesnt fit.. assuming that she was astral projecting, she still had to walk past inara and mal with gun in hand to get it down to the cargo bay and I think at least Mal would have seen it.

VETERAN

Saturday, September 13, 2003 1:29 AM

I don't think she's able to astrally project (if that's the way one would state it). It appears that Simon and Kaylee are the only one's who notice her, I think Kaylee even speaks to her, but the rest of the crew are thoroughly distracted (some more than others) to pay her any mind. The fact is she wanders through the ship and finds the gun. Somehow it's Jayne's that's probably a slip in the writing. I thought it was the hideway they keep on the 4-wheeler, until Mal yelled a Jayne. I don't know why that was necessary, except that seems to be part of the character development (Mal constantly discipling Jayne).

I think the implied astral projection is a trick by the writers, you get the impression she can dematerialize until near the end, when you realize she put on a suit (which she learned how to do in Bushwacked and slipped off the boat.

WILLIAMX

Saturday, September 13, 2003 4:05 AM

Object in Space is my very favorite ep . . .just sayin'

Yes, when Early is cruising down the side of the ship his glove is missing. I kind of ignore that.

River was picking up a lot of things, and my thuoghts have already been expressed by some others here, but I'll recap:

Simon is bummed that he's not living the life of ease, He'd be there right now if he could.
Kaylee just looks at her cuz she's afraid and suspicious.
Jayne noticed her when she came in and is feeling all guilty about his turning them in. He feels it every time he sees her.
Book is reliving an interogation.
Zoe and Wash, you know . . .
Inara- She just wants Mal to come out and say I dig you lets get it on but first you need to quit this companion gig. (In addition, I just want to say it was really wierd and kind of . . . not that great that she busted out in tears during HoG. I thought she was stronger than that, more in control of herself and besides, why would she get all weepy when she knows it's just sex and part of the payment she insisted that Mal take . . . Not like in OMR when there was a real possibility that she might actually have to give up on Mal. That scene is one of the few gripes I have with the show.)
Mal, is feeling the existential agnst. None of it means a damn thing indeed. recall he was once a religious dude before the Independens gave up the fight.

All Glory is Fleeting

VETERAN

Saturday, September 13, 2003 4:32 AM

I think you're on target on both OIS and HOG.

I didn't like it when Inara broke over Mal sleeping with her friend. It was good to show a reaction but, the reaction should have been much more subtle. Maybe a quick dab of a single tear or a downward glance that the other companion noticed.

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT PAGE