Does Joss use too many jokes?

POSTED BY: WarpedBeauty
UPDATED: Friday, February 17, 2006 06:30
VIEWED: 7628
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WARPEDBEAUTY

Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:15 AM

First of all, firefly and serenity are the most beautiful motion picture productions I've ever seen. After seeing them, I can't express the depth of my admiration for Joss Whedon and what he tries to achieve in his work.

Question for all firefly/whedon fans:

Joss Whedon uses alot of comic relief in all his shows, often by making a light quip in a serious moment. I have seen this noted before in articles etc. as being "startling" and "surprising", but I've never seen anyone discuss whether it's actually a good thing.

I would like to see less of these jokes myself. While I think they are usually quite funny, I think they do spoil the moment a bit. It feels as if Joss Whedon is being self-degrading, as if to say "Hey, I know this is all real melodramatic, but I don't take myself too seriously." The way Joss discusses his work in interviews reflects the same attitude: he almost looks as if he's reluctant to show his passions because he lacks conviction in the depth of their meaning to other people.

I don't hold to that, as Mal would say, because the themes in his work, especially firefly/serenity, are very very touching to me, and they deserve to be taken seriously and displayed proudly for the world to see. Without too many points of comic relief that say "oh, we don't _really_ care about the themes, it's just an action/comedy movie".

Of course, I could be full of kuso in all this. That's why I want to know what everyone else thinks :)

KWICKO

Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:32 AM

For me, Joss uses just enough wit and jokes to make things seem that much more REAL. And it keeps very heavy moments from getting TOO heavy, and snaps you out of them before things get maudlin or too dark.

Case in point: In the final season of Buffy, Nathan Fillion plays a VERY bad preacher (Caleb). He's quick with a disturbing joke, which is both sickly funny AND kind of keeps the whole show from getting too dark and creepy. For instance, when he snaps a seer's neck as she's warning Buffy of what's to come, he does it mid-sentence, then quips, "What was that last part? I couldn't hear it on account of her neck snappin' and all." Sick, twisted, and FUNNY.

Maybe that's what makes Joss's work resonate with me so much. I have a sardonic, twisted sense of humor, and I tend to go for the jokes when things look their worst. For some, humor's a kind of escape from fear or danger...

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...

DAVESHAYNE

Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:43 AM

Considering the humor thing. A lot of people don't necesarily get this but Joss doesn't write comedy. He writes deadly serious dramas about people who just happen to be total smartasses. Sure it comes across as comedy but it's much, much deeper.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

FOLLOWMAL

Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:45 AM

Welcome, WarpedBeauty,

*hands a browncoat to WarpedBeauty* I'm the supply clerk, and we're happy to have you here.

I think Joss has just the right mix of humor and tension. I am a new fan of Joss, having not watched Buffy or Angel. Firefly was my first experience with Joss' work. He's got genius timing and he knows just how to draw you in with the terror and the worry and then help you laugh it off with the funny. I had read for years that Buffy had superb dialogue and that the writing was top notch. I never gave it a chance... but when I saw Firefly I realized that Joss has a gift. He truly taps into that need we have for good story telling.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

KWICKO

Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:46 AM

Yup-yup. I'm reminded of a quote, from whom I can't remember:

"This life is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel."

Me, I prefer to think of life as a comedy. After all, if I can't laugh, I just might start screaming.

[Doink. Edit time. Found the quote. Horace Walpole (1717-1797):

“The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.”

Man, Joss was right. This Google-y thing really CAN find stuff!]

M

A baby seal walks into a club...

GORBISHUN

Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yup-yup. I'm reminded of a quote, from whom I can't remember:

"This life is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel."

Me, I prefer to think of life as a comedy. After all, if I can't laugh, I just might start screaming.

I totally agree with you, my favorite entertainment is comedy. I have nothing against drama/tragedy/whatever, I just like to laugh. If anything, I like humor even more when it's mixed in with drama. Plus, pretty much all drama or tragedy has, at the very least, trace amounts of humor.

I guess it also depends on what you find, or are capable of finding, funny; because I like to laugh I tend to find a lot of things to be funny.

For me the show and movie have the perfect amount of jokes and humor, but that doesn't mean that your wrong about Joss's attitude toward his own work.

«°-:-°»
Also... I can kill you with my brain.

WHITEFALL

Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:13 AM

I think all of joss's shows are so good at what they do because they put the humor in the right places. Imho, aside from the occassional ironic/witty remark during a dramatic sequence (like the train/trash jobs) joss tends to play jokes for what they are: jokes. In a relaxed setting, people make jokes, and he and his writer minions just make those jokes better sounding than you or I could come up with on the spot. Realistic? not quite, but moreso than if they werent there.

And another thing, I loved how firefly has its downtime, where nothing totally important is happening, and buffy and angel often have that too... and in such times, witty banter is exchanged, remarks are made, smiles are smiled, and life is lived. Once you have life, the contrast of immenant peril or death is all the more dramatic.

I survived a day in Whitefall and all I got was this lousy signature!

Terrifying Space Monkey of Destiny

WARPEDBEAUTY

Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:30 AM

Hey, lots of responses real quick :D

Thanks for the browncoat, I am indeed new to this universe. I discovered Serenity at a video hire shop 1 week ago.

Sad that noone agrees with me though. I conclude two things from this:

1. Point of interest, to say that I dislike all comedies is a gross generalisation that happens to be true. I have never, ever liked comedy tv/movies. I guess that makes me abnormally humourless.

2. I think I like real life less than most people, I find it kind of flat. I don't complain at all when TV/movies skip real fast away from that. Hey, that's why I like SF/fantasy, isn't it? I love to see people in situations which possess an intensity that real life never does.

Thanks for your thoughts :)

NUCLEARDAY

Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:33 PM

Since I was wee one growing up with Star Wars, one thing I've always linked with a good sci-fi show/movie was a decent bit of comedic relief and some witty banter. Also why later in life I got hooked on the old black and white film noir type stuff. (Back before 'special effects' you actually had to write good dialogue to carry the plot :)

Anyways, I've always appreciated good dialogue in shows. As far as the humor part, I hate to do yet another post that disagrees with you, but that's one of the things that got me hooked here. ;p Actually, it's what got me to rent the movie, cause I remembered the commercials and thought it looked like a decent space romp at worst. (Course it was so much, much, more than that :)

Having a good blend of comedy and drama is kind of a thin tight-rope to walk. Too much drama just leaves you drained by the end of the movie. You often need that comedic relief to contrast the deeper sequences.

I know I've heard movie experiences (and probably applies to TV to some extent) as being compared to a rollercoaster ride. You have to have your ups to stress the importance of the downs. There are times watching both the series and especially the movie where I want to both laugh and cry at the same time.

Basically, if it was always dark, the really dramatic moments wouldn't sell the audience as much. You'd be lacking the contrast. Two best examples I can think of off the top of my head here are War Stories and the Message.

War Stories has that torture sequence with Mal using the banter to keep Wash from breaking. Starts out rather funny until you start to catch some of the tension creeping in. Also with the Message, what I'm thinking of is the scene at the dining table with Mal and Zoe reminiscing about Tracy. They're joking and then at the end, there's that moment where Mal almost breaks down a bit. Small moment there, but it really sells it I always thought.

_______________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:24 PM

Hi WarpedBeauty!

I can see your point, about Joss making fun of himself, and how that could be a drawback. It's kind of in his history though.

Part of what got me into Buffy was the many layers of it - great characters and interesting stories, and at the same time Joss poked fun at all the usual 'coming of age' storylines that have been done SO many times. And he made fun of himself, which was really necessary for me. I mean a heavy drama about high school vampires? Come on! But as soon as he ridiculed himself, it kind of gave me permission to take the dramatic parts seriously without feeling stupid about it. And then he came up with episodes like The Body. Holy cow, best dramatic hour of TV ever!

Firefly makes fun of itself less than Buffy, (FF doesn't need to, it's more believable) but Joss still has the ability to put so many different emotions on screen, it's astounding.

I agree with whoever said it's about smart-ass characters in dramatic situations. So true! Part of why I like Mal so much is that he survives hard times by keeping his sense of humor. Some of my favorite people in real life have this ability, and the more I can manage it myself the more I enjoy life.

Maybe it just takes some time to get used the funny/dark combination??

m4p

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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