Our Mission in Iraq
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Thursday, June 12, 2025 06:42
VIEWED: 5443
PAGE 4 of 7
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So what? I didn’t say anything about Germany.
No, but I did. You spun the question so that my position if I took it would become an automatic lie, because the "world war" is a collection of simultaneous wars in asia, africa, the middle east and europe. Saying something is not part of WWII would be blatantly not true. It was not, however, part of our plan to get rid of the Nazis and stop the holocaust. Instead, it was a pointless distration which prevented us from getting rid of the Nazis fast enough to stop the holocaust, and as a result, we failed.
Similarly, this war is a distraction from the war on terror, and not a part of it, and as a result, we are failing, and Osama Bin Laden is now stronger than ever. By the time we capture and make a martyr out of him his army could become the largest on earth.
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Any time there is a belligerent foreign rogue state there will always be people within the world powers who favor force as a solution, and there will always be purpose in preparing for the possibility of armed conflict.
That's not what happened. Not in Japan, and not in Iraq. War was the only intention set forth. There are many other solutions which weren't considered. Truman's assistance on unconditional surrender showed his absolute unwillingness to make deals.
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The same was true during the Hoover and Roosevelt Administration when the Japanese seized Manchuria from the Chinese. But does the fact that some people may have prepared to respond to Japanese aggression in 1932 with force mean that the Pacific Campaign was not a part of World War II?
I'm saying this whole thing is largely a separate issue, Tojo and his secret deals aside.
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But whether or not there were proposed strategies for the invasion of Iraq before 9/ll doesn't change the importance of Iraq in the War on Terror.
Sure it does.
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A key source of Islamic terrorism is the disillusionment and turmoil created by unstable totalitarian regimes and belligerent brutal dictators that control the Middle East, in fact it is probably the principle source.
This is not even close to reality. It's not even in the same time zone as reality. Terrorism grows out of chaos. Totalitarianism is the result of too much order. Sure, terrorism grows least in a free society, which sure ain't Iraq, but terrorism was really coming from chaos, palestine, afghanistan, sudan, somalia, and from saudi arabia, and response to aggression.
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The implementation of an Islamic Republic that would spread democratic ideals to Middle Eastern states and presumably elevate the main source or a large part of terrorist recruitment is a strong motivation for the Iraq Campaign.
Sure, I grant this, but I don't grant that this was ever the goal. These people want ownership, control of the ME, not to free its people from tyranny.
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Iraq was a perfect choice for this experiment since it was clearly an unstable totalitarian state run by a madman with clear ties to terrorism and terrorist factions, including Al Qaeda.
Again this is just way off base. It's not even remotely true. Iraq was highly stable. Too stable, almost police state. It supported jihadists in palestine, but only nominally, and had no connection to Al Qaeda which it depised and sought to destroy. The current rule in Iraq is Al Qaeda.
The absurdity of your statement is that Bush would not even make that statement. He keeps saying Saddam-terror, terror-Al Qaeda, but recently I saw someone press him at a press conference, and he wouldn't say it. That's because he knows it's not true. I know it's not true.
But this isn't the point. You're trying to paint Iraq as if it were Afghanistan, which is just blatantly not so. Iraq is a breeding ground for Ak Qaeda *NOW* as a result of our actions. I certainly beyond even the slightest a shadow of a doubt was not then.
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Iraq had made itself a target of the world powers when it invaded Kuwait and thereafter refused to recognize cease fire agreements and cNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I think our mission in Iraq is to turn it into the same kind of failed state as Afghanistan.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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I think our mission in Iraq is to turn it into the same kind of failed state as Afghanistan.
Lol. I don't think this is the intentional mission, but yes, this is the effect so far.
Anyway,
Finn,
Sorry, didn't mean to rant at you. I don't disagree with you that much, but I do on this point. I think it was spin that connected these events, and it's something often done. Someone has an interest in X and Y happens, and so they try to connect Y to X. We had an interest in pacific expansion already. We weren't on a mission to defeat Germany. We became so later when the brits begged us, which they did because they were afraid, not of the Germans, but of the Soviets. Churchill became convinced that Russia would defeat the Nazis, and then conquer the entirety of Europe if the US did not intervene. It's always been suggested that the final deal had some connection to the dismantling of the british empire, but I've never really looked into that end, I don't know if someone else has a thought on that, but it's what I've always heard.
Anyway, I don't see Iraq as part of the war on terror, I think it's a great distraction from it. The war on terror would be best served cold. Hot war creates chaos, Bin Laden and co are well served by chaos.
I get what you're trying to say, which I think casts it in a better light than Bush/Cheney did, I just disagree with it. It could be that you're right, and I'll bear it in mind, but bear what I said in mind, because I also could be right.
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Originally posted by dreamtrove:Quote:
Why don't you just shut the hell up ? My post was relevent to the thread. Jesusfuckinchrist.
Auraptor, it was intended as humor, don't blown up at Chris.
Seems that's his only response to any post anymore. Whether I'm posting or not. It's such an inane quote that has no relevence beyond the context which I used it in the first place. Mildly amusining for at time or two, but it's gotten old, real quick.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:It was old, dead and rotting the first time out.
but it's gotten old, real quick
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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In response to our "mission in Iraq"
Western Democracy has known the problem of terrorism and has DONE NOTHING
1. Munich Germany Olympic games.. see the movie, doubt anyone pays attention
2. Tehran, Iran 444 days, I bet Carter would have wished for the invasion of Iran rather than Iraq, his habitat for humanity would have rushed in and rebuilt the embassy for sure.
3. how many airline highjackings, don't forget how the Israelis handled the Uganda situation
4. the first world trade towers attack 1993
5. loss of two embassies to car bombings in Africa by Al Queda and Bin Laden
6. Kobi towers military housing complex in Saudi Arabia also by Bin Laden
7. USS COLE by.. you guessed it..
8. 9/11
History is loaded, Why is anyone comparing the events that shaped WWII and now is beyond me, both have nothing to do with the other.. Germany had already occupied all of Europe long before Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, in fact, Germany insisted the U.S. not be attacked. Japan needed badly needed raw materials, we withheld them while japan occupied China, read the "rape of Nanking" believe it or not, that book is banned from Japan, its also a crime to have it in your possession if you visit japan.
You can label republicans as warmongers, democrats as liberal cowards avoiding responsiblity or what ever.. this was unaviodable, we have already seen what the UN is capable of with the wide spread corruption, OIL for Food program, the pay offs of Weapons inspectors and their lucrative parties and orgies at Hussein's expense, well now its our expense. Do I blame any president, no I blame ourselves, we are a democracy, one voice one vote, a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Its not about OIL, has not been since the oil embargo of the 1970's can't remember, go ask, go research.. long lines, rationing, highjacking of fuel trucks because the fuel was worth more than gold. Our allies have done the opposite for us, yes allies, our oil supply is purchased from Canada, Mexico, Venezuala and Africa (mainly Nigeria). Examine that list.. Canada, well .. 1999.. one solo terrorist captured with explosives and detinators in Washinton (entering from Canada) to blow up the space needle or a target in Los Angeles, and his associates also captured in New York also with plans with targets on the East Coast. Mexico, even as we speak, tunnels, hit lists of our border agents discovered, more effort and expendature on our part for border security than seen on the Mexican side. Guess what folks this cycle has been turing for along time and now, the first time I visited New York was 1999, and I have a picture of the Twin Towers (magnificent view) now look, can someone tell me what you see now. A&E just release their version of flight 93, just wonder how many people will take time to watch it, or just turn the channel to Lost or Desparate Housewives. To me what is sad, if the people of Iraq turned and just shipped the oil to the U.S. for nothing and you got your SUV's filled up at .90 a gallon you would not hear anything spoken about our war. I remember the price was .90 in 1997, why did it change? Bush was not in Office? Politicans promised to investigate, 2004 Senator Kerry in San Diego, CA proposed a nation wide gas price? why did he let that go off the topic list after he left California? We want our lives free, easy and fast. We want to good life but no one wants to pay for it. Here is a good idea, buy a home in a hurricane area, expect no help from your taxes you pay to your local and state governments and watch a cat. 5 hurricane blow through, my house is flooded, and instead of me.. the home owner stepping in and building myself up, I fight for the right to stay in a hotel at taxpayers expense.. 3 meals and the works.. and when asked, what is wrong with going back and fixing up your house that you own.. I repeat the same words spoken by a homeowner on CNN, why, I can sell it for 5 million, my asking price, since all the charity and money drive benefits that were created and produced several b
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What I think you are addressing is the rot at the heart of the American myth.
America is not the greatest country on the planet. Its people do not have the highest standard of living. Its role is not as world arbitor. America's democracy is not more than a wheezing feeble wreck.
After WWII the US was the only developed country left standing - literally. There was a brief shining golden time. That people said, meant the US was blessed with THE ANSWER. Whether the question was political, economic, social, moral, the US had THE ANSWER. And it looked at everything it did and called it good.
But times changed. Devastated countries rebuilt. Other countries rose up with new strength from the mud.
And Americans could not let go of the fantasy - the drug - the addiction.
It is still broadcast every day. Brayed by politicians. Advertized in slick sales pitches. Given mis-shapen form in entertainment.
Eveyone is doing well. (But don't go downtown after close of business hours.) America is righteous. (Government corruption is just normal business.) Americans are peaceful. (Bombing a country into the stone age is good.)It is a land of freedom. (As long as you say the right things.) And so on.
Some of its cultural. And some of it's deliberate propagandistic manipulation - granted of existing pathologies.
Personally, I don't see it changing from the inside. That is why the US will go stumbling and careening down a blind path until the end.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Rue:
Something I've thought myself, but I hesitate to voice it as, since I'm British, I'll just be labeled as an anti-Amercan ingrate...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear
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Quote:Nah, it's to turn it into the same kind of failed state as America.
I think our mission in Iraq is to turn it into the same kind of failed state as Afghanistan.
couldn't resist!
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Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:People who behave like this are called "anger addicts". They feel they have the RIGHT to control others, by any means possible- but especially if it means getting angry and righteous and beating up on people- because it makes them feel in control again.
America is not the greatest country on the planet. Its people do not have the highest standard of living. Its role is not as world arbitor.
I read an interesting study once that had to do with the causes of war. This group of researchers tried to tie war instigation with a number of variables- anything from protein per kg per day (expect an inverse relationship) to level of technology to religion across a number of civilizations, both current and extinct. The only variable that consistently connected with aggression was the level of perceived uncertainty in the population as a whole.
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Please don't think they give a shit.
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