Why was river in a box?

POSTED BY: themantheycalledJames
UPDATED: Saturday, April 22, 2006 15:44
VIEWED: 9661
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MURKYMERC

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by niknak:

Exactly. I fancy Summer Glau as much as the next man but when River jumped out of the box I was thinking "ahhh, someone get the poor girl some clothes," and not "oooh sexy - show us more!". Credit to the acting, directing and script for making me think that.

You are a better man than me. When I saw that scene I was thinking, "Get me a couple glasses of wine, some soft music, and turn the lights down"

SIMONWHO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:26 AM

After seeing how shy Summer is in real life and hearing how nervous she was about being in Firefly, rewatching the scene makes me feel bad for her as an actress, even though she's entirely convincing.

I also have to keep telling myself that she's not a 17 year old girl and is in fact older than Jewel Staite.

URSULA

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:29 AM

Because she wouldn't fit in the mailing tube.

URSULA

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hera:
in the Serenity ep, not only does she wake up disoriented, in an unknown place with no one she knows in sight, she wakes up start-raving naked. Literally.

This also works well as a metaphorical "rebirth" of River in her new world of living on the Rim--if ya wanna get all symbolically 'n' such.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by theonetruebix:
Maybe because JOss has stated outright that he contradicted the story told in the series, because he wanted a dramatic rescue scene for the film.

Would you be kind enough to point to a source? I remember him saying that he changed the story, but I also remember him saying that he worked hard not to contradict it.

Obviously the two terms are completely different in all possible ways.

Quote:
That said, he's said since then that he's adopted the fanwank you've already seen here about Simon lying in the series.

There is no need for Simon to lie, if he has adopted that stance I don't see why because it would imply layers of complexity far beyond what we have seen in the movie and the series.

Too much complexity in my opinion.

I mean I see why you would want to say he lied, it implies he is inept which works towards furthering the character, but it also means that something he said must not have been true.

So
Either he was not contacted by men
Or they were not underground
Or they were not a movement
Or they didn't say she was in danger
Or they didn't say the government was playing with her brain
Or they didn't ask for funding
Or they didn't say they could get her out
Or they didn't mention cryo
Or they didn't say they’d bring her to Persephone

Well he was in contact with them so they must have contacted him even it was a reply instead of initation
We know that they were underground
We know that he paid them
We know that they got her out as part of an orchestrated plan (so they must have said they could at some point)
We also know that they told him about the conditioning.

That means the only things he could be lying about are:
The men being a movement
Them saying she was in danger
Them being involved in the cyro bit
And
Them bringing her to Persephone

If they were not a movement it hardly matters much.
If they didn't say she was in danger it still doesn’t make much of a difference.

That means that the only reason to say Simon was lying is if the people who got River out were not involved in the cryo bit and/or getting River to Persephone.

This means that there was an entire as yet unrevealed and indeed unhinted at leg of the journey. Simon was involved with some other group of people who either got him the cryo equipment or passage to Persephone, or both.

Why make that assumption? Isn't it so much easier to assume everything he said was true?

ASARIAN

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by niknak:

Quote:
Originally posted by Hera:

So, from a screenwriter's point of view, if you wished to elicit sympathy/empathy for River; wanted to exemplify how vulnerable and easily victimized she could be, having her be sans clothes isn't prurient, it's good story telling.

Exactly. I fancy Summer Glau as much as the next man but when River jumped out of the box I was thinking "ahhh, someone get the poor girl some clothes," and not "oooh sexy - show us more!". Credit to the acting, directing and script for making me think that.

Finally, a bit of decency in this thread. How refreshing! Thank you!

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

THEONETRUEBIX

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:02 AM

The citation for Joss and the fanwank

http://www.riverismadeofchocolate.com/spoilers/2005/Sep/17/joss_fan_wa
nk

Which just points to

http://www.serenitymovie.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=766

Where he says

"It is the one place where I broke cannon, because I started to write the movie with people we have never met, breaking the material out, and I thought "My God, this is uninvolving" and realised I had to switch it for the movie to make it Simon himself who broke her out. So. My fan wank goes out as follows, he was lying about when he said other people broke her out, and I haven't gotten why yet. I'm working on it."

NOSADSEVEN

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I mean I see why you would want to say he lied, it implies he is inept which works towards furthering the character, but it also means that something he said must not have been true.

So
Either he was not contacted by men
Or they were not underground
Or they were not a movement
Or they didn't say she was in danger
Or they didn't say the government was playing with her brain
Or they didn't ask for funding
Or they didn't say they could get her out
Or they didn't mention cryo
Or they didn't say they’d bring her to Persephone

Well he was in contact with them so they must have contacted him even it was a reply instead of initation
We know that they were underground
We know that he paid them
We know that they got her out as part of an orchestrated plan (so they must have said they could at some point)
We also know that they told him about the conditioning.

That means the only things he could be lying about are:
The men being a movement
Them saying she was in danger
Them being involved in the cyro bit
And
Them bringing her to Persephone

If they were not a movement it hardly matters much.
If they didn't say she was in danger it still doesn’t make much of a difference.

That means that the only reason to say Simon was lying is if the people who got River out were not involved in the cryo bit and/or getting River to Persephone.

This means that there was an entire as yet unrevealed and indeed unhinted at leg of the journey. Simon was involved with some other group of people who either got him the cryo equipment or passage to Persephone, or both.

Why make that assumption? Isn't it so much easier to assume everything he said was true?

That was a lovely straw man you set up and tore down.

Simon's was a lie of omission. Everything that he said was true. The 'lie' would have been the implication that he was not directly involved by his specifically mentioning all of these other relevant details, while leaving out some very important and very relevant self-incriminating ones.

I think the fanwank is solid. I just personally haven't decided whether I prefer to accept the fanwank, or to accept the change as a break in continuity. I like things to match up neatly, which the fanwank allows, but accepting Simon's lie of omission has implications for his characer throughout the series that (as Joss's comments bring forth) were not intended, and I'm not certain that I want to go there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

MSG

Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:58 PM

Perhaps Simon is a B.F. Skinner fan:)

AERYNSUN21

Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:06 PM

well two by two hands of blue was looking for a girl not a box, and I've never credited the alliance with an overabundance of brains....

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