Iraq Situation is Bullshit
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 10, 2024 22:11
VIEWED: 28270
PAGE 6 of 17
Quote:
Posted by Maniacnumberone:
Regardless of why we got into Iraq, we are there now, let's look to the future instead of the past. What would be the best thing for us to do for them now? Would it be better to leave the Iraqi's in the middle of the disarray, or help them sort it out? I think it's better to help them sort it out. Even though blah blah this and blah blah that happened in the past.
Ditto. Oh, I could kiss you for saying that.
In my VERY generalized and personal opinion, those who are not supporting our current actions in Iraq (not on this board but everywhere) have just been negative, and unproductive. I've never heard anyone come up with a different, logical course of action, just lots of whining about why we shouldn’t be doing what we are doing, and I don’t see how that helps at all.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
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According to Maniac and Kaythryn, there is no reason to accept responsibility. The past is past.
Well, here's some future for you. Let's turn over things to the UN, let's APOLOGIZE for the big mistake the U.S. has made.
Call me a whiner, but an $87 billion dollar invasion started on false pretenses is something to bitch about. So is all the people DYING.
Why don't you people wake up and use your brains instead of sit around and say, "Oh well, what happened, happened." Good hell.
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Hmmm... that's exactly what thye said about Vietnam. You're probably too young to remember, tho.
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I never said people weren't responsible, but how likely is it that they are going to take responsibility? As evidenced by Bush's remarks on television last night, not very likely. We can wait for them to apologize, or to plead on bended knee to the U.N. for help, and it would be great if they did, but in reality they won't. I doubt if what we should be trying to do is to force the President or his administration into admitting their mistakes. 
Like Kayt says, not productive to the Iraqi situation, but like Succatash says, a needed vent for built up rage at You-Know-Who. In the end, I guess venting anger is needed for the sanity of the browncoat populous.
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Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Quote:So, not complaining is being productive to the Iraq situation? It's better to just give up and let Bush do what he wants, because he won't change? What the hell are you saying?
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
I doubt if what we should be trying to do is to force the President or his administration into admitting their mistakes. Like Kayt says, not productive to the Iraqi situation...
This thread isn't just about venting, it's also hopefully educational and maybe somebody reading this might realize that Saddam is not responsible for 9/11 and George Bush is a big fat liar. If my bitching keeps just one person from voting for Bush in 2004 than I say it's productive as hell.
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Quote:
Posted by Succatash:
According to Maniac and Kaythryn, there is no reason to accept responsibility. The past is past.
Not what I said. But talking about going back in the past and changing events that have already taken place doesn’t help with what’s going on now. “If only we had done blah blah a few years ago then everything would be fine.” Well, the fact is, we didn’t do that, and unless one of you doesn’t mind lending out his or her time machine, we can’t change it, only try to fix it, work around it, or live with it.
Quote:
So, not complaining is being productive to the Iraq situation?
I don’t think that's what he was saying, and certainly not what I meant. I’m trying to say that if you don’t have anything new, helpful or productive to say towards what we should do, then don’t speak up just to whine. The only reason I'm not complaining about what’s going on is because I agree with the action we are taking, and I do plan on voting for Bush in 04.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
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Quote:Oh, okay Kaythryn. Thanks for the lesson on how to talk. Is that Jesus Christ I see standing behind you?
Originally posted by Kaythryn:
I’m trying to say that if you don’t have anything new, helpful or productive to say towards what we should do, then don’t speak up just to whine.
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Quote:
Posted by Succatash:
Thanks for the lesson on how to talk. Is that Jesus Christ I see standing behind you?
Hey, anytime Tash. If you need anymore lessons just ask, I don’t mind a bit for a friend. And yeah, that was Jesus, he couldn’t stay but he wanted me to tell you he said “hi”. If you wanna hang around for a bit Buddha was planning on stopping by, I could even give you a short lesson on sarcasm while we wait.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
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Quote:
What would be the best thing for us to do for them now? Would it be better to leave the Iraqi's in the middle of the disarray, or help them sort it out?
I've never heard anyone come up with a different, logical course of action, just lots of whining about why we shouldn’t be doing what we are doing, and I don’t see how that helps at all.
I'll take a shot here, how about instead of putting together a government there of people picked and chosen by the U.S., you start off with local area elections. Mayors and such. No interference in who gets to pitch their hat in, ex Baath party, Sunni, Shia, Kurd whoever. On a small scale have an internationally motinored fair election. Then this will be the point organization to help restore order, infrastructure, police , etc in that area. Police services can be restored in that area under this government, city services, etc.
The U.S. will provide resonable support, ie if it is something you can and want to help with fine. If not they say so and why and attempt a compromise. At any point, if that government says " you Americans are causing too much trouble, get out of my city " you do, until such time you are invited back in.
These administrative areas eventually elect repersentives for an Iraqi parliment, and they amongst theirselves elect a spokesman / leader.
The same rules apply, if they want to deal with you, cool. If they want you to go home, cool.
The only way out, is to let the reins go back to the people who live there. Just think how well recieved a force stepping in to punt Bush from power would be recieved.
In addition, I think any deals for reconstrution or oil should require approval from a independant Iraqi government before they are anyway close to binding.
" If wishes were Horses, then we'd all be eatting Steak "
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"Well, the fact is, we didn’t do that, and unless one of you doesn’t mind lending out his or her time machine, we can’t change it, only try to fix it, work around it, or live with it"
Hey Kathryn, you forgot one important thing- we can LEARN FROM IT. I'm sure I don't need to quote Santayana? Doomed to reliving the past, and all that?
I have a brain damaged daughter, who for various reason has a hard time learning from the past. She refuses to acknowldge her part in how things turned out. It's frustrating and a little firghtening to see someone repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Translate that to the most powerful nation on earth. We're like babies waving a semi-automatic.
The FIRST thing I would suggest is that we stop supporting dictators. It just winds up being a blast from the past- like the Taliban and Saddam- ya know what I mean? We (you) have to ackowledge our role in creating those monsters:
"According to information obtained by the American Gulf War Veteran's Association, there is irrefutable evidence to show that the United States government provided ,...Anthrax, West Nile Virus and Clostridium botulinum" to Saddam.
"Ex-National Security Chief Brzezinski admits: Afghan Islamism Was Made in Washington
Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski"
OK, got that in place?
The NEXT thing we need to do is stop panicking over every move towards economic justice and local control. We meet every land reform movement with bullets. Honestly! You'd think that we were tryin' to make the world safe for capitalism instead of safe for freedom!
The sad part about this is, you really think that dubya, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle et al really care a fig about you, me, or freedom. These people would gladly send thousands of troops to their death for an extra couple of dollars on a barrel of oil.
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