Our Mission in Iraq

POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Thursday, June 12, 2025 06:42
VIEWED: 5443
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SERGEANTX

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 2:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
...The behavior of terrorists, even aspiring would-be terrorist minors, does not dictate the bahavior of coalition forces. We, strange as this may seem, neither take orders from, nor allow our policies to be set by, Osama Bin Laden, or anyone under his command. I hope...

If wishes were horses...

The unfortunate truth is that we've allowed Osama to dictate our foreign policy for years. We've followed his script to the letter, fleshing out all his outrageous claims.

He'd been ranting for years that the US lusted for the middle east oil fields, that they wanted to usurp traditional Islamic culture and governance and replace them with western values. He claimed we'd do this through force of arms. When we weren't moving fast enough to rally support for his fearmongering, he poked at us. Sadly, the idiot fantasies of the neo-cons were well primed for his passion play. They couldn't resist and played their part as ordered. That's what the Bushies are most ashamed to admit. Their 'fearless leader' has been a pawn, not only of the neo-cons, but of the man responsible for 9-11 in the first place.

I'd like to say we deserve better, but 'we' is a relative term.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:

I'd like to say we deserve better, but 'we' is a relative term.

Another welcome voice of reason.
Nice to see ya 'round, Sarge.

Chrisisall

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:08 AM

Quote:
But we are the orcs. We are the forces of Sauron. We went in, and we created war, where it did not already exist.

That is the single greatest line of go se you've posted yet. If anything, we are the Lords of Gondor, beating back the orcs in Mordor. It can't possibly be put any plainer than that.

Such events are as tragic as they are rare. Many many, if not most, Iraqis actually are thankful for the change of Gov't and their new found freedoms...despite the challenges which they face.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Let's rewind to 2001. You're GWB, dead set on removing Hussein from power. Here's an alternative solution: You find someone in Saddam's own govt. who feels the same way, and you stage his coup. Then he can introduce democratic reforms etc. And Saddam is a pretty evil guy, don't tell me there aren't people in his own govt. willing to participate in the plan.

It’s not like it hasn’t been tried. In fact we came pretty close in 1995, but according to the man in charge, the operation was sabotaged in its final stages of preparation by the Clinton Administration. After that, Hussein tightened his grip on his military and shored the loose ends. I doubt it could have been tried again anytime soon.

But that kind of thing carries its own kind of problems. It’s difficult to control the outcome, which can have unpredictable consequences. It can be done. God knows the Soviets were masters at it, but we have never been. Our covert operations have always paled in comparison to the Soviets, because we’ve never had the gumption to do it. It’s too easily exploited by the minority party for political gain and too difficult to keep secret. And that’s just in carrying out the operation. In taking care of the consequences we are even worse at.

If we're going to do it, then we really need boots on the ground.

Also Iraq is part of the war on terror.

Oh, he's so full of manure, that man! We could lay him in the dirt and grow another one just like him.
-- Ruby

WALKERHOUND

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:04 AM

see the thing is we tried the ignore him rout with Osama, and all it got us were staidly escalating body count's.

ya the man wanted a war (one must assume he felt he could wine it) he's said as much several times (over and over). and the thing about starting a war is it's fairly easy to do, all he had to do was keep trying.

FLETCH2

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:18 AM

The British Foreign and Commonwealth Office had the following solution.

1) Invade
2) Depose and preferably kill Sadam
3) Find another Sunni hardman to put in power.
4) Look for and destroy any WMDs
5) Leave, making it clear to the new generalisimo that if he dabbled in WMDs or persecuted any Kurds, we'd be back to do to him what we'd just done to Sadam.

But then again, we were never really interested in the whole democracy thing....

WALKERHOUND

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:34 AM

evan simpler.

how about when we pulled sadam out of his hole. we just tooke him aside and explanded.

"look this is your second chance, you work for us now. if we have to come back agine, were just going to tose a grenade down there with you."

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:55 AM

I want to say this, because almost no one ever does. It was only mentioned once or twice by the most sensible members of the senate, but here it is again:

WMDs. Who cares. If Saddam Hussein had stockpiles of WMDs up to his neck, it's no kind of justification for war. This is Nazi-logic. I'm sorry, Godwin be damned. It's Nazi-logic. If you can say, hey, the enemy has weapons, that's a good enough reason to invade, let's start a war. That's absurd. Of course he has weapons, he's the enemy. This was somehow glossed over in the whole WMDs, no WMDs. If there had been WMDs we would have successfully become the Nazis. As it was, we just looked really stupid. I think it was a godsend for us that there were no WMDs, not only because that meant they didn't get used against us, which they would have in the war, though they wouldn't have if there hadn't been a war, but because it just makes us look dumb rather than fascist. Or we look fascist and dumb, but the dumb pre-empts the fascist.

I want people to seriously look closely at the doctrine of pre-emptive war. This is the 'Bush Doctrine,' but before it got that name, it was the Hitler Doctrine.'

This is reality. Pre-emptive war is probably the most evil idea on the planet, apart from genocide and deforestation. Of course Bush is all over deforestation lately, as was Clinton, and like Clinton, he is turning a blind eye to Genocide.

I'm downgrading Bush to 'Evil.' Not just a puppet of TE, but actually himself, evil. It still doesn't make him worst president ever. Remember, Jackson ordered a genocide, and Truman ordered a nuclear attack on two civilian populations *after* he saw what nukes could do. Bush is not *as evil as* Truman, but he's below that 50/50 line of good/evil.

That said, Rumsfeld sold Hussein those WMDs in the 80s, that's where the info came from, Rummy was the real source. He intended them to be used against Iran, and many of them were. With desert winds it was hard to get only the enemy, and Saddam had to cut back, so he still had some in 1990, but he destroyed them for fear of their presence being discovered during the conflict.

Fear because these weapons were against Geneva conventions. Now, I hope that no one here is going to claim that Bush is justified because Saddam was in violation of Geneva conventions. This would be George W. "The Geneva conventions no longer apply" Bush we're talking about.

Finally, no, I'm no less republican than I used to be, and no more likely to vote for the democrat in the next election, unless my GOP nominee is Cheney. Who shoots lawyers.

I thought about this one, I decided it's not probably homocide, but it is enough by itself to remove Cheney from office. He showed a remarkable lack of cool.

First, he clearly panicked and fired when he heard someone coming up. He probably thought he was going to be assassinated, a thought which preoccupies his mind because a) he's paranoid, and b) he's really really hated, and people probably really are trying to kill him.

Anyway, he lost his cool and shot Whittington, not a level head. Not what you want in a commander in chief. Now it gets worse. He then lost his head and spent time hiding and trying to cover up the story, which leaked anyway, and he didn't make a statement to authorities or the press. Now I'm not saying Cheney was "Ted Kennedy" level of uncool, he didn't sit there and let Whittington die, but still, not the levelest of heads.

Quote:
when you start a f^&king war.

Yeah, well, my qualifier is when you *start* a f^&king war. Some wars are already started and you can go in and end them, and if you can do so on our minimum death rule, then by all means, it's worth fighting for. But making war out of naught but greed and ambition is what we have here. I still maintain that the main purpose to this war was this:

In order to fulfill the agenda of a one world state, the world needs to be organized into a series of multinational entities, such as NAFTA, teh EU, ASEAN, the African Union, and a MidEast Union. Such a union has some pretty clear

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sgt. X:

The unfortunate truth is that we've allowed Osama to dictate our foreign policy for years. We've followed his script to the letter, fleshing out all his outrageous claims.

He'd been ranting for years that the US lusted for the middle east oil fields, that they wanted to usurp traditional Islamic culture and governance and replace them with western values. He claimed we'd do this through force of arms. When we weren't moving fast enough to rally support for his fearmongering, he poked at us. Sadly, the idiot fantasies of the neo-cons were well primed for his passion play. They couldn't resist and played their part as ordered. That's what the Bushies are most ashamed to admit. Their 'fearless leader' has been a pawn, not only of the neo-cons, but of the man responsible for 9-11 in the first place.

I don't really have anything to say to this, I just thought it was so good it needed quoting again.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:07 AM

Quote:
It’s not like it hasn’t been tried. In fact we came pretty close in 1995, but according to the man in charge, the operation was sabotaged in its final stages of preparation by the Clinton Administration.

Typical. I'm not at all convinced that Clinton could get anything right in foreign policy.

Quote:
But that kind of thing carries its own kind of problems. It’s difficult to control the outcome, which can have unpredictable consequences. It can be done.

Who cares about predictable. The objections to Saddam Hussein were pretty obvious, he was a vicious killer. Not-vicious killer is an easy standard to meet.

Quote:
If we're going to do it, then we really need boots on the ground.

I thought you were a republican? This is the democrat drum beat. No, we don't. We need to lead. It's what the US does best. If we were the champions of justice that we say we are, no one would be getting free samples of the oil, no one would be torturing Iraqis, and the people of Iraq would be signing up to fight for us instead of the terrorists, and then we would not need any more boots on the ground. We would have them, Iraqi boots. And this is the way it should be, not because Iraqis should die for Iraqi freedom, because an army of Iraqis is going to be met with passive resistance, but an army of westerners is seen as the plague of zion.

Quote:
Also Iraq is part of the war on terror.

No, it's not. It's really really not. It's part of the neo-con agenda to create a mideast union, which they laid out back in the 70s, and then posted on the web and printed in the Chicago Sun Times in the 90s. As someone who was a regular visitor to the page at the time, the whole plan had in it not one mention of terrorism until after the September 11th attacks, at which point they updated the language to spin it as if it had always been about terrorism, but they did not change one detail of the plan or it's objective.

If someone wants to argue whether or not a mideast union is a good idea, or whether it's an objective that the US should be working towards, then fine, but don't pretend it is what it is so very clearly not.

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