Our Mission in Iraq

POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Thursday, June 12, 2025 06:42
VIEWED: 5443
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DREAMTROVE

Monday, February 13, 2006 6:19 AM

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2038149,00.html

Yep, more troll bait. But I'm serious. Warmongering isn't traditionally our thing, I don't know when the republican hawk was born, but it should curl up and disappear now. This is war, guys, if you read this and don't like what you see, well then here's a news flash: This is what happens when you start a f^&king war. Sure, the people here are brits, as they were in the dismemberment, I don't know how bad the worst things Americans have done are, but that's not the point, the point is, start a war, and this is what happens.

Let's rewind to 2001. You're GWB, dead set on removing Hussein from power. Here's an alternative solution: You find someone in Saddam's own govt. who feels the same way, and you stage his coup. Then he can introduce democratic reforms etc. And Saddam is a pretty evil guy, don't tell me there aren't people in his own govt. willing to participate in the plan.

AURAPTOR

Monday, February 13, 2006 9:21 PM

May very well be an excessive act of brutality, as does happen in war. Or, it may be that these very same lads had some part in any number of things which ended up in the deaths of civilians or soliders. Maybe they danced and mocked at the soldiers themselves in an earlier event, perhaps at the death of a fellow British solider. The video does not show anything, but what only goes on right then and there.

And yes, it could be their only crime was tossing rocks at soldiers. Seems a bit unlikely, though. There's far more to this than meets the video's eye.

dream, your distorted, edited view of history is sad to see. Saddam had 12 years to come clean w/ the U.N., and instead decided to bribe Euro businessmen, UN and possibly Gov't officials. And long beofre Bush decided to run for the office of President, the White House ( Bill Clinton ) made it US policy to oust Saddam from power. ) But eveyr time I hear the charge of warmongering, I think of The Two Towers, and Grima Wormtonge

"Why do you lay these troubles on an already troubled mind? Can you not see?
Your uncle is wearied by your malcontent, your warmongering...."

Open War Is Upon You, Whether You Would Risk It Or Not.

If the Brits are to be ruled as committing crimes in this one case, fine. Punish them. But don't view all that has occured through the window of this one event.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CARTOON

Monday, February 13, 2006 9:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Saddam had 12 years to come clean w/ the U.N., and instead decided to bribe Euro businessmen, UN and possibly Gov't officials.

Exactly. And, thanks to the United Nations, Saddam had another 4 months (after he knew the U.S. would come calling) to hide or relocate any WMD's.

Speaking of which... http://www.nysun.com/article/27183

CITIZEN

Monday, February 13, 2006 11:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cartoon:
Exactly. And, thanks to the United Nations, Saddam had another 4 months (after he knew the U.S. would come calling) to hide or relocate any WMD's.

Which is why none have been found, they're hidden under a berry bush in Syria.

This incident doesn't surprise me, we already know that British and American troops have been mistreating Iraqis, and it happens in every war.

It happened in Ireland, pickup a few locals, give them a kicking and then hand them over to the RUCs...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:12 AM

Quote:
Or, it may be that these very same lads had some part in any number of things which ended up in the deaths of civilians or soliders. Maybe they danced and mocked at the soldiers themselves in an earlier event, perhaps at the death of a fellow British solider.

The story cited that they had thrown stones at the soldiers, which was their first and only encounter with them, which prompted the response detailed above.

Quote:
And yes, it could be their only crime was tossing rocks at soldiers. Seems a bit unlikely, though. There's far more to this than meets the video's eye.

This is, of course, irrelevant information. The behavior of terrorists, even aspiring would-be terrorist minors, does not dictate the bahavior of coalition forces. We, strange as this may seem, neither take orders from, nor allow our policies to be set by, Osama Bin Laden, or anyone under his command. I hope. Ergo, the behavior of Iraqis is irrelevant to the behavior of Brits or Americans, since eye-for-an-eye is not actually law, and is in fact illegal virtually everywhere in the world, including international law. But Law aside, this is not who we are. We do not seek to ourselves behave like terrorists.

Quote:
dream, your distorted, edited view of history is sad to see.

Every post from you is really a gift to be cherished.

Quote:
Saddam had 12 years to come clean w/ the U.N., and instead decided to bribe Euro businessmen, UN and possibly Gov't officials. And long beofre Bush decided to run for the office of President, the White House ( Bill Clinton ) made it US policy to oust Saddam from power. )

Since, as a republican, and not a democrat, I despise Clinton, I don't think that your attempt to paint Bush as just following Clinton's idea is going to carry much weight here. But then you know this already.

But since you also know that no one here is a sharper critic of socialism, and the Baath Socialists are true to their name, socialists, I clearly have no love of Saddam, or his corrupt deals with leaders in Europe.

But also, taken aside for a moment, consider this. There are people in this town I disagree with, right here at home. I go into town meetings and they tell me, Oh we've decided to close the school, because the state is giving us 15 million as an incentive to merge. I strongly vehemently disagree with them. Bussing children out of town to go to a large conglomerate school is bad for a community. But I did not go into the meeting with a shotgun to shoot them all.

Saddam Hussein was a leader whose policies I disagreed with. That doesn't justify what Clinton did, which was inhuman, and it doesn't justify what Bush did. Opposing Saddam Hussein is about winning the support of his people, and if need be, supporting an opponent to oust him in a coup, but preferably, getting him to step down. I know this is probably too conservative for your tastes. But going and beating him over the head with a shovel is hardly a civilized solution.

Quote:
But eveyr time I hear the charge of warmongering, I think of The Two Towers, and Grima Wormtonge "Why do you lay these troubles on an already troubled mind? Can you not see?
Your uncle is wearied by your malcontent, your warmongering...." Open War Is Upon You, Whether You Would Risk It Or Not. If the Brits are to be ruled as committing crimes in this one case, fine. Punish them. But don't view all that has occured through the window of this one event.

I tend to see Bush as Theoden, and Cheney as Grima Wormktongue. But this is not about war being upon us, it's about creating war. There was war in Darfur, but Bush could not be bothered. There was war in Rwanda, but Clinton could not be bothered. I am by no means an opponent of defending when open war is upon you.

But we are the orcs. We are the forces of Sauron. We went in, and we created war, where it did not already exist.

We have a war with Bin Laden, who I firmly believe to be living it up in Somalia. We have chosen to ignore that war. When we invaded afghanistan, our inte

CARTOON

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Which is why none have been found, they're hidden under a berry bush in Syria.

The above link I provided from the New York Sun article indicates the opposite may be true.

BTW, we now also have recordings of Saddam talking with his generals discussing these "non-existent" WMDs. Of course, Saddam apparently had a tendancy to be somewhat fanciful at times in what he imagined (and still imagines, for that matter). As such, recordings of his talking with his generals about them probably shouldn't carry much weight with me.

Anyone who thinks Saddam's WMDs never actually existed is being somewhat naive. That we haven't found them, does't mean they don't exist and we won't someday find them. Iraq is a big place, and the UN covered Saddam's posterior for 4 months. Heck, if I was a dictator with his resources, I could've hidden Baghdad in four months.

Personally, I believe any WMDs Saddam had were scooted out to Syria or Iran. More likely Syria, as Saddam was no fan of his neighbors to the east, nor they of him.

Realistically speaking however, we all know this is Bush's fault -- like the collective wrongs of all mankind -- so it really doesn't matter if the WMDs turned up tomorrow -- people would still want Bush's hide.

Personally, I think we (or someone) could've encouraged insiders to take Saddam out without a war. However, I can't blame the hesitancy on the part of any possible Iraqi insiders who might've considered such an act, thinking we wouldn't be there to support them, like we abandoned the Kurds in 1991.

The whole thing was a disaster waiting to happen, and I think the whole region (and the world) is better off without Saddam. We may not have handled it the best way possible, but hindsight is always 20/20. Just ask Neville Chamberlain.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:44 AM

I know Saddam did have WMD at some point, we all do and we’ve still got the receipts to prove it. Those were destroyed though and Saddam’s vast resources weren't all that vast.

I have to profess I don't understand your argument, we've been going over Iraq with a fine toothcomb, we managed to find Saddam so why not his WMDs? It makes no sense to me why we should accept that WMD has not been found, but that just proves it's very well hidden? So it's there, if we find it, it proves it’s there, if we don't it proves it's really well hidden?

BTW I'm not disagreeing with you because your name is Cartoon, I'm disagreeing with you because I think you’re wrong.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

CARTOON

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
BTW I'm not disagreeing with you because your name is Cartoon, I'm disagreeing with you because I think you’re wrong.

I may well be. But, I think it's far too premature to be dogmatic either way.

And according to that article (and no, I don't believe everything I read in the press -- particularly these days), someone with some reasonably credible involvement in the whole thing claims to have found what appears to be at least four hidden, flooded bunkers.

BTW, even though that article is about a week old, I just heard about it today -- which goes to show you how one-sided the press is. If someone came forward with an acknowledgement of findings to the contrary, it probably would've been splattered over the front page of every paper in the galaxy.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
May very well be an excessive act of brutality, as does happen in war.

Well, that didn't take long. I had hoped to see more personal, real life comments here, instead of the standard political rhetoric.

I guess all's fair.

:dissapointed:Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I don't know when the republican hawk was born, but it should curl up and disappear now. This is war, guys, if you read this and don't like what you see, well then here's a news flash: This is what happens when you start a f^&king war.

D, why be so negative? Some think this goes with war like rice and beans, death and taxes, politics and corruption.

And some ought to be shot, to know what pain they're dealing with (just in the leg, don't want anyone dead- anyone).

Chrisisall, Dreamtrove fan, Citizen sidekick and SignyM follower...

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