Continuity Problem

POSTED BY: Hessian
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 02:02
VIEWED: 5119
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GWEK

Monday, February 13, 2006 8:26 AM

For the record, it should also be stated that the "darker" Mal in the movie is much closer to the guy we see in the pilot, which is what Whedon intended him to be. Fox told him to tone down Mal's anger and darkness for the series. When he did the movie, he was able to do things the way he wanted.

ASARIAN

Monday, February 13, 2006 9:37 AM

Good post, THEONETRUEBIX! And I don't disagree on any particular point.

Your observations about River were spot-on. In War Stories she shot 3 guys with her eyes closed even! She just quickly made their position; then, 3 shots; then 3 dead guys, and River ... STILL with eyes closed! The cutie doesn't even bother to check the result! :)

Also, very early on in the series, in The Train Job, River suddenly blurs out (in sickbay): "Mid-bulk transport, Standard Radion Accelerator Core. Class code 03-k64, Firefly." This girl's got military training alright. :)

In Serenity, there are many short moments where you can tell the crew has become closer to one another. Like in Mal's "They won't see this coming!" speech, where Jayne slides his (beer?) bottle over to Simon. A significant "tell".

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

RCAT

Monday, February 13, 2006 10:08 AM

I think the BDM was a condensed version of a few episodes (the completion of season 1?). To me, all the characters acted consistantly w/ the way they were (or were moving toward in the series). In some ep. of the BDS some of them got very little screen time according to their part in the story. Zoe is a good soldier (second in command), she never has a problem disagreeing w/ Mal but also wouldn't ever demean him in front of others. Wash in the pilot even defends his role in a heist (tho he's not the one grabbing the 'loot' directly). Jayne in the BDS is constantly surprising in his insight at one moment and stupity at the next. I think the movie just didn't have enough time for the story to unfold to show the characters properly (one of my arguments for a new series rather than movie sequels, tho' either would be welcome...sooner would be better :) ).

I hope she does the soup thing. It's always a hoot, and we don't all die from it.
-Wash

DONCOAT

Monday, February 13, 2006 11:59 AM

Sigmanunki, I wonder whether you've read the comic trilogy (now out as a combined trade paperback) that describes some events that occur between the series and the movie. It's rather helpful in bridging the emotional gap between the two formats.

It makes clear what is hinted at early in the movie: that things haven't been going too well for Mal & Co. in the interim. There have been costly failed jobs, Book and Inara have left the ship, and in general Mal is getting increasingly desperate.

That explains a lot of things, even some you didn't mention -- such as the fact that by the end of the series, Simon and River were becoming accepted as members of the crew, but at the start of the BDM that's no longer true.

In any case, I'm sorry that you seem so unhappy with the movie. Some fans do have a problem with it, and I think that's their loss -- and ours.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, February 13, 2006 1:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Contradiction, yes there is.

Simon said that he paid people to get her out and get her to Persephone. That's where he picked her up and got on Serenity.

No he didn't, watch it again and listen to EXACTLY what he says.

Whether or not it is a contradiction is another matter entirely, but he does not say he picked her up at Persephone. Never even implies it.

He does however imply other things that, if taken at face value, create a glaring contradiction.

Now if you want to say it is a contradiction that you only miss if you have blinders on I've got no problem. But don't reference stuff that never happened.

SIGMANUNKI

Monday, February 13, 2006 11:32 PM

@all:
I have watch the entire series multiple times along with the movie. I see a startling number of contradictions, from history to character. They are there, period. Joss has admitted it. Hell my parents which have the attention span of a cronically depressed lemming noticed a good chunk of them.

The only arguments that I have seen that have come up reference things that have happened, but are removed from context, or are making large leaps where such leaps are not justified. The River being a weapon thing is a perfect example of the latter.

Yes, throughout the series she has displayed the abilities, crack shot, good at tactics and highly intuitive.

BUT these things, although lead somewhere, are no indication of the level that we saw in that movie. None what-so-ever.

If anything they lead to her being an assasin (which was mentioned in the show by the way). For those without a clue, an assasin goes in unnoticed (at least not noticed as an assasin)‚ does the job quietly, then leaves. If everything goes even remotely well, none is the wiser until the assasin is long gone.

Stealth, quickness, the ability to remove oneself from seemingly impossible situations, or get to (or into) a place that is seemingly impossible to do so. This is the assasin. This is the traits that she displayed.

Not some perfect warrior chick.

Now, this is the last that I will be saying on this topic. I participated in a number of threads just after the movie hit the theaters and have not the time nor the patience to deal with any more sophistry.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

AGENTROUKA

Monday, February 13, 2006 11:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Now, this is the last that I will be saying on this topic. I participated in a number of threads just after the movie hit the theaters and have not the time nor the patience to deal with any more sophistry.

Whoa. Beware of anyone who doesn't see things your way, geez.

Personally, I felt the movie was a perfect, almost seamless continuation of the series. Perfectly fits with the emotional changes everyone would have gone through on the six months between show and movie.

Especially the tension between Mal and Simon is completely predictable.

And seriously, the continued shots of River in the series taking in unusually acrobatic positions, her dancing, her flexibility, everything... that sort of stuff is easy to unlearn if you don't do it for two years. River is in excellent physical condition and it's implied again and again on the show.

So, what you're doing is not take the "cold hard facts" as face value, you're seeing what you want to see and not seeing what you don't want to see and that's your "evidence". Which is... oh, did you use the word blinders before?

RHYIANAN

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Yes, throughout the series she has displayed the abilities, crack shot, good at tactics and highly intuitive.

BUT these things, although lead somewhere, are no indication of the level that we saw in that movie. None what-so-ever.

If anything they lead to her being an assasin (which was mentioned in the show by the way). For those without a clue, an assasin goes in unnoticed (at least not noticed as an assasin)‚ does the job quietly, then leaves. If everything goes even remotely well, none is the wiser until the assasin is long gone.

Stealth, quickness, the ability to remove oneself from seemingly impossible situations, or get to (or into) a place that is seemingly impossible to do so. This is the assasin. These are the traits that she displayed.

Yes, I'll agree she was trained as an assassin. However, she was conditioned to it, meaning that she'd be given a command and then she'd automatically do what the command said without ever thinking about it. The command that was given in the fruity oaty bar commercial was meant for her to get herself noticed so that she could be found.

Later when she escapes the pantry (or wherever they have her locked up) she displays all the qualities of an assassin to achieve her objective.

The only other scene I can think of that you might say she acted like a "warrior chick" is where she was fighting with the reavers. However, that seems to me that she's using her "ability to remove herself from a seemingly impossible situation"

Quote:

Now, this is the last that I will be saying on this topic. I participated in a number of threads just after the movie hit the theaters and have not the time nor the patience to deal with any more sophistry.

I truly don't care if you respond or not. I'm not trying to argue with you. Arguing with someone that is closed minded is like banging your head against a wall: useless and painful. I'm just posting my thoughts in case it might help someone else reading this and to see if I'm alone in my view or not.

Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoe: You live on a spaceship, dear.

HERA

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
. . . some are intentional (and admitted by Mister Whedon) as necessary for the change from TV show to movie, or because Fox owned the rights to certain ideas or characters.

Please tell me that this is not the case? That there is no way FOX could own Joss's characters or ideas? It's bad enough they own the rights to the series on DVD.

Please God, make me a stone.

"Wanna?" – Mal to Kaylee, Out of Gas

ASARIAN

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Contradiction, yes there is.

Simon said that he paid people to get her out and get her to Persephone. That's where he picked her up and got on Serenity.

Thus contradiction.

Persephone? Nah. In a shooting script there is a bit of extra dialogue, not actually in the Serenity pilot on the DVD:

-----------------------------------------

SIMON
... I was
contacted by some men, some
underground movement. They said she
was in danger, that the government
was playing with her brain. If I
funded them they could sneak her out
in cryo. Get her to Boros and from
there, I could take her... wherever.

MAL
How did you know it wasn't a scam?

SIMON
I didn't. Until you opened that box.

INARA
Will she be all right?

SIMON
She was supposed to reacclimate
before I brought her out, she's in
physical shock, but not serious. I
don't know if she'll be all right.
I don't know what they did to her, or
why. I just have to keep her safe.
(to Mal)
You asked me what a man like me would
kill for. And she's it.
-----------------------------------------

This entire convo (with the exception of a few lines) does not really appear in the actual Serenity pilot. So, Boros? Maybe. But Persephone? No.

The script we finally got, btw, is better, IMHO.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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