THE BIG MESSY THREAD--Discussion of the Civil War and its relations to FIREFLY
POSTED BY: SouthernMerc
UPDATED: Sunday, October 26, 2003 20:41
VIEWED: 10919
PAGE 4 of 5
That reminds me of a story: The Gray Ghost, Mosby, had raided a Union camp and found a general's tent. He snuck in, unceremoniously slapped the sleeping General on the rear with the flat of his sword and told him to get up and get dressed. He's now a Confederate prisoner. When Lincoln and his cabinet found out everyone was dismayed that a general was captured. Lincoln's response was, who cares? I can make every man in this army a general. The mules and horses that the rebels took when they raided the camp cost money.
Viva Firefly!
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I'll bet that by then Lincoln had had enough of incompetent generals.
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Yeah, I think Lincoln would liked to have seen more generals than that one just "go away."
Viva Firefly!
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Hey Y'all,
I'm new here, be gentle;)
Just some random thoughts from someone with a California public school education. I'm not especially familar with the battles of the WoNA, but I believe there is one cause for the war itself that has been largly overlooked on this thread.
Don't piss off a Southerner, or else whether right or wrong they will go out of their way to kick your a--. It's that simple.
My source for this possibly insulting over-generalization... a short stint with the grunts in the U.S. Marine Corps where I ran into more of them than not. Mind you, I liked more of them than not also, and find this to be an endearing cultural trait, if that means anything to anyone.
If you need another source, here's a rather condescending article that cites a U of Michigan study that came to this conlcusion using many pages and lots of big words.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issu
e=2003-07-26&id=3341
And here's a rebuttal to that article that I particually enjoyed.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956666/posts
How does this pertain to Firefly? Does the sentence "I know you're not supposed to hit anyone with a closed fist, but it is on occaison hi-larious" mean anything to you?
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Hey, from Cali now!
Ok, I can't speak for every other Southerner here but...yeah, we DO like a good dust up. I, myself, am fairly peaceable, but I still pause in channel switching if I see boxing or some other fighting event on. I have even felt the bizarre urge to pummel some turkey who desperately deserved it. I haven't followed through on those though, probably why I'm not in jail.
That bit in that psychology study mentioned about bumping someone in a hallway and insulting them, they seemed to misunderstand something: Only a friend is allowed to do that (yeah ok it's weird, but that's how it is). I think that's where being polite helps. I don't know about the rest of you, but my mom drilled that into me at a young age. I can't help but be extremely polite to strangers, but with friends I am quite crass (like I said...weird). Anyone else have similar experiences?
Ok now for the bit on Firefly, MOVIE IS COMING!! HOODY HOO! Had to get that out of my system. Maybe they will restart the series?
Oh, and if my posts don't make sense, just say "Merc, go to bed", as I am up too late again.
Now for the relevance to FF. Seems that Mal has that attitude down in the show. He's easygoing and polite most of the time, but do NOT push his buttons. Inara being one of them, loyalty another. Can anyone else spot instances to support? I don't have the episodes so I can't check (although, if someone were to point out where I could find a copy til the DVD's come out, I would be grateful).
Jayne: "How big a room?"
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"Now for the relevance to FF. Seems that Mal has that attitude down in the show. He's easygoing and polite most of the time, but do NOT push his buttons. Inara being one of them, loyalty another. Can anyone else spot instances to support?"
One of the things I noted in Firefly in general, is NEVER mess with Kaylee. If you shoot her, mal will put a bullet in your skull and walk right by you. If you threaten to rape her, you are going to die a slow death in deep space a billion miles from anything else. If you say the wrong thing, such as "I would never with Kaylee" you'll be left behind to have breakfast and get beaten up by some deranged friend of Jayne.
Mal does have a "twisted sense of nobility" and has no problems with beating up and robbing slavers. But then really, neither do I. Does anyone?
"my kind of stupid"
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There is a strong Jacksonian tradition, especially in the South, but the Yankees are that much different either. See this article
http://denbeste.nu/external/Mead01.html
Its a little condescending, but if you can read throught that, I think it is pretty accurate in reflecting/explaining the American pysche
"my kind of stupid"
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I forget the movie but the lines are as follows:
"... those Yankees aren't nothing but a bunch of shop keeps and clerks..
Well those shop keeps and clerks did a pretty good job against the British in 1776."
I think Mal's attitude and sense of morals is more that of a Westerner than a Yankee or a Reb. More like one of the Cartwrights.
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I once heard that Lincoln did not want to go to war, but used it to hold the states together. I may have heard this on the history channel or PBS. The sense I got from it was that slavery ended up becoming the focus of it. The North and South in that time were dealing with something that usually happened in Europe. Also, there were external factors that were present like the North and South's presence on the international scene. The US was a young country and even now it is a young country. Lincoln must have taken this into consideration. Of course, after the war concluded, the South's culture was altered in different ways. Currency changed, their government, even their history as an independent nation. I see these things when I watch the show. The Firefly Verse reflects some of this or I could be wrong. The people on the outer planets had everything changed for them. I am getting long here and I will shut up now.
Do you think I'm a complete back birth!
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No I don't think you are a complete backbirth, nor incomplete one either.
It is my understanding as well that Lincoln did not want the war. He did want to hold the union together, and is quoted as saying that if he could do that at the expense of slavery, he would have.
But we had a war, the slaves got freed, the South reconstructed, and now we are all one big happy family again. Right? 
"my kind of stupid"
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