Au revoir, Paul Martin!

POSTED BY: Skywalken
UPDATED: Thursday, February 9, 2006 06:52
VIEWED: 3559
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SKYWALKEN

Saturday, January 28, 2006 2:02 AM

I know this is a few days late, but as a conservative American I just want to add that this handgun-owning, private health insurance-loving, Kyoto Protocol-opposing, social welfare-hating, capitalist is damn happy to see Martin and the Grits fall down to opposition status.

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, January 28, 2006 4:02 AM

Hmm. I was sort of indifferent to Martin until he started openly opposing the United States. I guess I'm glad to see that that position still merits and instant lose in Canada.

Hopefully this new guy will be a better ally to the US. Hey, with an ally like Canada, a country with arguably the world's largest deposits of oil, perhaps we can forget this whole middle east thing.

KHYRON

Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Hmm. I was sort of indifferent to Martin until he started openly opposing the United States. I guess I'm glad to see that that position still merits and instant lose in Canada.

Hate to break it to you, but that wasn't why he lost the election, in fact that was one of his redeeming qualitites.

Martin's road to getting fired began with some corruption scandals (well, they were scandals in Canada, in many countries they wouldn't have been worth a mention) that caused the parliament to pass a vote of no-confidence in Martin and his administration, which prompted the election, an election in which Paul Martin decided to run, in spite of the fact that his administration couldn't be trusted (which is what prompted the election in the first place). So it's not that Harper and the Conservatives were more popular in terms of policies (they did, however, have an excellent election campaign), it's more to do with the fact that the Liberals had totally lost the plot.

The fact that the Liberals still got 30% of the vote is due to, amongst some other things, Martin's opposition to the war, a position that most Canadians can identify with.

KHYRON

Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Hopefully this new guy will be a better ally to the US.

Yeah he probably will be, although he won't take shit from the US either (witness his response to the Americans objecting to him sending military ice breakers to the Arctic Ocean).

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Hey, with an ally like Canada, a country with arguably the world's largest deposits of oil, perhaps we can forget this whole middle east thing.

Canada has some oil, but what are you talking about!? Next to the Middle East, Russia has the largest oil reserves, and Russia is an ally, but you don't see the US making itself dependent on Russian oil. Why? Well, I guess pride has a role to play, but also, Russia won't be able to supply enough oil for US consumption, hence the dependence on the Middle East. So Canada definitely wouldn't manage.

Also, just because Canada wasn't too happy about the war doesn't mean that it wasn't a trading partner of the US. If Canada really were floating on an ocean of oil, don't you think they would've traded it with the US!? It would've been to their economic benefit too, you know.

Edit to add: http://www.geohive.com/charts/charts.php?xml=en_oilres&xsl=en_res
Canada's 13th in the list of countries with most oil reserves...
http://www.geohive.com/charts/charts.php?xml=en_oilprod&xsl=en_res
... and 9th in the list of oil producing countries.

From these you can see that the middle east will be an area of American interest for a loooong time to come.

KHYRON

Saturday, January 28, 2006 6:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
... as a conservative American I just want to add that this handgun-owning, private health insurance-loving, Kyoto Protocol-opposing, social welfare-hating, capitalist is damn happy to see Martin and the Grits fall down to opposition status.

You and I have two things in common: we're both alive, and we both like Firefly. I see we more or less disagree on the rest (although I won't deny that private health insurance and capitalism aren't all bad).

GINOBIFFARONI

Saturday, January 28, 2006 6:26 AM

I wonder just how long Harper will last anyway.....

one year maybe.... unless he plays the social angle right down the middle, and doesn't cozy up with the Americans.

If he trys to join the US on missile defence, or fails to pursue our treaty rights over softwood lumber, or now the artic sovernity issue... I'd say we'd likely have an instant non confidence vote followed by another election.

Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue

KHYRON

Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:10 AM

I think in terms of social policies he'll probably be alright, even if every now and again he'll be unpopular because of them, but his main weakness will likely be his foreign policy (he's been in office 4 days and already he's in a territorial dispute with the US and Russia). Despite the way he portrayed himself during the campaign (fairly centrist compared to what he really is), he's quite right, and, as a whole, Canada isn't, especially when it comes to foreign policy. I doubt the parliament will hand out another vote of no confidence unless Harper really puts his foot in it (after all, it doesn't want Canadian politics to become a farce), but judging by what little I know about him, I'd be surprised if everything is going to go well.

GINOBIFFARONI

Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:21 AM

if he steps in on the Canada health act in any major way, or abortion, or many other similar issues.....
in addition to the foreign policy problems

the Bloc, the NDP, and the Liberals will force an election... and if the Liberals oust the Martinites and put forward a decent leader free of scandal, we could have a complete reversal.

Harper has to keep it to the center, and hope he can win a majority down the road... otherwise the bloc will be able to alienate him in Quebec ( his supporters will go back to the Liberals ) and Ontario will also go straight back to the Liberals.

Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue

KHYRON

Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
if he steps in on the Canada health act in any major way, or abortion, or many other similar issues.....

Hopefully he'll have the common sense to stay away from them. He seems smart and I don't think he'd touch something that works, at least not in a big way.

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
the Bloc, the NDP, and the Liberals will force an election...

Together they do have the majority, and I can totally see the Liberals and NDP combining forces if the need arises.

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
...and if the Liberals oust the Martinites and put forward a decent leader free of scandal, we could have a complete reversal.

Running Martin was a mistake and the Liberals paid for it. The election almost seems to have taken them by surprise... they started their campaign off fairly late, and then when it started it was very negative. They also didn't bother looking at other potential candidates aside from Martin, I guess maybe because it would've taken them too long to establish the replacement and show how he's different from Martin. Overall, the Liberals seemed out of touch and it almost felt like they thought they were entitled to a win, as a reward for being in power for 12 years.

But I agree that, with new leadership, the Liberals will be in a good position to challenge for power next time around. I think most people still agree with the Liberals as a perty, it's just that Martin and his buddies were past their sell-by date, and pretty much everybody saw it.

GINOBIFFARONI

Saturday, January 28, 2006 8:14 AM

Who do you think will take over the Liberals ?

McKenna ? Tobin ? Bob Rae ?

While I don't think Belinda Stronach would get the top job in the party this time, I could see her jumping into the top five... making her jump from the Conservatives more a long term brillant maneuver
than the dumb choice it looked like at first..

Like the old Brit saying, Promotion comes from Bloody wars and disased shores

Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue

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