So, what happened here...

POSTED BY: FlipDog
UPDATED: Friday, January 20, 2006 22:06
VIEWED: 12050
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NIRVANA

Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:31 PM

I have to agree that to bring a baby into the story would be a huge mistake. Waaaayyy too soap-opera like.

So many storylines I have seen on TV start to tank the minute a main character gets pregnant (even Farscape, which tried to make it original with the whole baby transfer thing barely made it work ((and what was with the giving birth in a leather body suit????)). Likewise, the worst season of Deep Space 9 was when Kira was preggers.

Babies end up being silly props for the actor and seriously limit available plot lines in my opinion. There starts to be way too much dialogue about feelings and such, which is fine, but part of what I like about Firefly is that there is a healthy balance of action/adventure and witty dialogue. Do diapers, bottles burping, nappy time, tickle fests and booties make for good TV? Not in my opinion.

NUCLEARDAY

Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:07 PM

Yeah, I guess a more abbreviated pacing to the character development is going to be a side-effect of switching from a series to a movie. Kinda why I really liked Whedon doing a series: each and every one of those episodes you never saw a character that didn't play a role in the story at some point. (Off the top of my head example: would have been easy to just write-off Inara every once in awhile and not see her all episode and say she's just off in the shuttle with a client, but even then they find ways to tie her back in: ala Jaynestown.)

Still, the movie had a lot of plot to run through, and alot of storyline to tie up. Kinda took the BDM as a compression of what we should have seen in the following one or two seasons. Great gorram movie, though; I was getting all misty-eyed near the end there.

On the characters getting killed: I had an easier time with Book than I did with Wash, though obviously Wash's was slightly more sudden. (And of course right after one of his best moments: what I always liked about Wash was that it could have been easy to write him in as just another wise-cracking sci-fi pilot character, I really liked how in those tense piloting moments he got all calm and professional.)

How I came to terms with that was this, though: say the final moments of the movie were drawn out in the last episode of a season two or the opening of a season three. Wouldn't be the first time a show killed off a character to get some ratings, and done right it can work rather well. in that context it can make a bit of sense. The next season would have given Zoe some more depth as she deals with the loss, and you could always bring Alan back to shoot a flashback or two.

Come to think of it, there weren't many other characters you could have gotten away with offing like that. Can't kill Mal, 'cause he's too pretty. Inara would need to stick around to delve deeper in the whole Mal/ Inara arc. Ditto with Kaylee and Simon, plus Simon needs to be around to help out River. And you gotta keep Jayne around, you know, to be Jayne.... and kill stuff, right? So that leaves Zoe or Wash. Alot of Wash's depth was in relation to Zoe, so killing her off would have meant looking for another facet of Wash's character. So long story shorter, I guess it makes sense to me. Still sad about it, but I can live with it.

Book, I would have liked to have felt more for, because that could have been a real compelling foil to Mal's character. We know Book has a hairy past, but never got enough clues to know exactly what. At first he sort of got to me in the show, seemed a little too heavily played as the conscience for the crew. Then as you get further it made more sense, here's someone with a past so checkered that he has to try to keep everyone on the straight and narrow, for the sake of his own salvation. Perhaps in the past he faced alot of the same trials Mal faced, only he made all the wrong decisions? Was he in the war? Did he work for the alliance?

Anyways, that's my two cents.

--"Browncoats don't die, they get cancelled."--

FLIPDOG

Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:08 PM

I agree...Baby = Bad. Plus, great stories like this thrive on conflict, and that conflict between Zoe and Wash was so great and leads to some great development. Granted, we don't have that anymore...but it made for good depth and gooooood watchin'

CYBERSNARK

Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:22 PM

One significant thing a pregnancy/baby could do is get Zoe off the ship. It would be the one thing that would override her loyalty to Mal --this is her "mission."

How would Serenity function without Zoe? She's Mal's last link to his old life, and, in many ways, his conscience. She's also the proverbial "short leash" that is necessary to control Jayne. Suddenly Jayne would be indispensible (God help us).

Meanwhile, how would Zoe survive on Wherever-it-is-she-settles? Has she ever really left Mal's side since Serenity Valley? And now here she is, out on her own, where Mal can't well follow.

Quote:
Originally posted by Joelist:
Against the Reavers, she was fully there and put herself into combat mode. She also got herself out of it when the Alliance forces finally broke in the compartment.

I think the most telling part of it was River's deliberate look toward Mal. She was waiting for his cue; she'd have been more than willing to keep going, to throw herself at the Alliance squad, if Mal had given the signal. . .

She is a weapon, but she's very deliberately putting herself in Mal's hands. She trusts him to use her abilities wisely.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

JOELIST

Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
One significant thing a pregnancy/baby could do is get Zoe off the ship. It would be the one thing that would override her loyalty to Mal --this is her "mission."

How would Serenity function without Zoe? She's Mal's last link to his old life, and, in many ways, his conscience. She's also the proverbial "short leash" that is necessary to control Jayne. Suddenly Jayne would be indispensible (God help us).

Meanwhile, how would Zoe survive on Wherever-it-is-she-settles? Has she ever really left Mal's side since Serenity Valley? And now here she is, out on her own, where Mal can't well follow.

Quote:
Originally posted by Joelist:
Against the Reavers, she was fully there and put herself into combat mode. She also got herself out of it when the Alliance forces finally broke in the compartment.
I think the most telling part of it was River's deliberate look toward Mal. She was waiting for his cue; she'd have been more than willing to keep going, to throw herself at the Alliance squad, if Mal had given the signal. . .

She is a weapon, but she's very deliberately putting herself in Mal's hands. She trusts him to use her abilities wisely.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

I agree she was meant to be a weapon. what has changed is she appears to be able to control the use of the weapon; I imagine that now that she understands about Miranda a subliminal trigger won't be able to set her off again.

FLIPDOG

Friday, January 20, 2006 9:59 PM

I don't agree that she's only a weapon. She's still a person and I don't think that Mal has "control" over her. I think she really trusts him, (more than Simon), but Mal wouldn't have had to give the order...the look on her face was one of "I could still take all these guys."

She makes her own decisions, which is why she is willing to help out in the beginning. YOu notice no protest, just a calm, "I know, I'm going for a ride." And the look she gives Zoe...she's in control there, willing to help out. My thoughts on how that came to be. Mal goes to River, asks her if she would like to help. Simon finds out and thats the beginning of the movie.

JOELIST

Friday, January 20, 2006 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FlipDog:
I don't agree that she's only a weapon. She's still a person and I don't think that Mal has "control" over her. I think she really trusts him, (more than Simon), but Mal wouldn't have had to give the order...the look on her face was one of "I could still take all these guys."

She makes her own decisions, which is why she is willing to help out in the beginning. YOu notice no protest, just a calm, "I know, I'm going for a ride." And the look she gives Zoe...she's in control there, willing to help out. My thoughts on how that came to be. Mal goes to River, asks her if she would like to help. Simon finds out and thats the beginning of the movie.

Right.

she was intended by the Alliance to be a weapon, but she is also a person. And following the events of Serenity she has more control over herself and her reflexive reactions.

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