What are your thoughts on god? Part 2

POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 14:34
VIEWED: 17958
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FREERADICAL42

Monday, January 16, 2006 9:36 PM

Hmm. We'll, we've gotten a few atheists, a few theists, even a mention of Pascal's wager.

I don't think Pascal's wager is really great as a reason to believe in G-d. I don't think G-d would appreciate that reason.

My belief is that on the simplest level, the traditional G-d exists. However, this is a very simple level meant for those who don't explore their spirituality further.

Beyond this world is a higher dimension, a dimension of the spirit. In this world, we are higher-dimensional beings (and I mean spatial dimensions here, for the mathematically oriented, think a three-d flatland with an n-dimensional soul crammed into each physical body) jammed into these bags of meat. These higher-dimensional beings, our souls, of which we are only a part, are all connected as emanations of a greater conciousness referred to henceforth as G-d. The physical, three-dimensional world is created by the application of spiritual energies by this being.

Our time here on earth is an attempt to shave off, by compressing ourselves into a lesser existence, certain impurities acquired by our souls. When we die, we are launched from three dimensional space into space of arbitrary dimension. We hurtle through this space until we completely reconnect with the higher consciousness; the journey from this world, through the higher space, to the new consciousness, has been called Hell, Purgatory, Sheol, Gehenom, what have you. It has been called this, but they are all metaphors for the inability to reconnect to the spiritual whole, which is the source of infinite bliss known as Heaven.

If we have not purified ourselves sufficiently through doing good deeds and bringing holiness and love to this world, our journey takes longer because we are "heavier" in higher-dimensional space. Some are so heavy that they cannot make it the whole way, and are trapped in "hell" forever, unable to reconnect, or as a slightly better fate, they fall back into compression into this world and are given a second chance.

So G-d as we know it is both greater than us, part of us, and the whole of which we are a part.

Alternatively, I have theorised that G-d arose from living beings evolving beyond the need for a physical existence and merging into one infinite, not-time-bound whole, then going back and creating ourselves.

Under both theories, the theme is that G-d is us, and we are a part of G-d. G-d is a great nurturer, a blanket, a stuff of everything. G-d does not rule. G-d simply is, was, and will be. Compared to that, the rule of man is nothing.

My proof? G-d does not need to prove his existence to me; my existence proves that he is there, but he has still chosen, through the wisdom of such infinite consciousness to give us a tiny inkling of his existence. This inkling, of course, is the giving of the bible to Israel at Sinai; a people would not have accepted a book that claimed a mass revelation to the entire nation if it had not happened.

"See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with, long as she does it quiet-like."

GRAVY

Monday, January 16, 2006 9:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
Well, I think we've made it clear that I won't convince you to think the way that I do. And I'm certainly not going to come around to your way of thinking.

I'm starting to feel a little under personal attack here, so I'm going to back away from this conversation for the time being.

Yes, I think we can agree to disagree =)

And I really am sorry if you felt I was attacking you or being too aggressive, I apologize.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, January 16, 2006 9:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kent:
I mean... If I had to bet on it, I know what I'd bet on, if we put it that way.

Bad bet, there can be no proof. If god showed up would that prove there is a god? No. People have claimed to be god before.

If everyone had a simultaneous vision of the same god saying the same thing would that be proof, hell no. Random chance and grouping more than adequately account for it. If that visions said, "Gravity will reverse itself as proof," and gravity did just that, is that proof? Not a bit. As Tiger said so well, "the very fact you can see it, measure it, or observe it's effects on the world in any way means it is natural, even if you can't explain it."

What would be proof of god? Life after death? Hardly convincing. Someone rising from the dead? Just a biological aberration. A reversal of entropy? Not a bit.

You can't prove god, you can't prove lack of god, fun huh?

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, January 16, 2006 9:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gravy:
can you be free with the existence of a God?

The real question is can God be free? Decisions are based on self, self is based on genetics and experience (nature and nurture), if god does not have genetics that leaves it to experience, which is a result of outside factors. So here is god, whatever god was initially and all that god has seen and done determining the outcome of all decisions of god, which effect the world, which in turn effect god.

Where is the room for freedom? Can god be free?

TIGER

Monday, January 16, 2006 9:53 PM

Quote:
If this seemed sarcastic sorry, you seemed to need to be set straight on some things. God as supernatural is just so ... odd.

Of course God is considered supernatural. He doesn't follow the rules of nature - wine from water, bringing people back from the dead, parting a sea, or any of the other hundreds of miracles mentioned in the bibles of the world.

TREVOR

Monday, January 16, 2006 9:57 PM

First off I love the discussion of religion, and really enjoy it when people can exchange ideas without personal attacks. Arguments are healthy in my opinion, but when it breaks down to telling others they are wrong, it gets personal. Not saying that happened here, just my observations of this form of discussion.

Now, to my beliefs. I do not believe, as another poster stated, that any of the religions have it right. I think all religious writings are based on beliefs of the time they were written, and moral guidelines for people.

There may very well be an all powerful being out there, I have no idea, although I personally have never felt anything to lead me to 'believe'. I think, if there is a God, he is both good and evil, kind and spiteful, jealous and forgiving. Basicaly, he is just like us. I do not believe in a Devil or Satan figure, nor in a Hell, neither do I beleive in Heaven. I don't beleive in spirits, ghosts, souls, etc.

That being said. I DO believe that religion should be taught in school, that prayer should be allowed in school, and in our government. Not just christianity, but every religion. No child was ever harmed for having knowledge, only by having knowledge forbidden. And the one true evil I beleive is not allowing knowledge to be gained, to not allow our children to weigh the merits of every idea, and form their own, educated, opinions.

Ok sorry, off my soapbox

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Meenol:
But then, to bring up the old chestnut, you gain nothing. If God does exist and you're wrong, you lose everything. If you believe in a God and your initial accreditation is right, you lose nothing. But if you're wrong (there is a God) and you believe in him, you gain everything.

I dislike this equation, it is over simplified, I mean consider the options:

I believe in god.
I don't believe in god.
I believe there is not a god.
I believe in god for fear of retribution.
I believe in god for want of reward.
I don't believe in god for want of social acceptance.
I believe there is no god for fear of the possibilty of god.
I believe only in what I can see, I have seen "proof" of god.
I believe only in what I can see, I have not seen god.

And so on.

Now consider the types of god:
God is an ass, no one is treated nicely.
God is selective, only lets in believers of a certain god.
God only dislikes people who believe there is no god.
God only dislikes people who believe in nothing.
God only likes people who believe in god.
God only likes people who believe out of faith.
God only likes people who believe what they believe out of pure motive.
God is fake

And so on.

Put every type of believer and every type of god into a graph, weight for probability based on past events, tabulate good vs bad outcomes, find the ones most likely to have favorable results, and then talk.

PRINCESSROHANNEN

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gravy:
Quote:
Originally posted by PrincessRohannen:
Well, I think we've made it clear that I won't convince you to think the way that I do. And I'm certainly not going to come around to your way of thinking.

I'm starting to feel a little under personal attack here, so I'm going to back away from this conversation for the time being.

Yes, I think we can agree to disagree =)

And I really am sorry if you felt I was attacking you or being too aggressive, I apologize.

No hard feelings, man.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mattie:
I know this may be a little cheesy to some, but I want to restate what I said in the first thread, especially since we believers seem to be outnumbered.

Do you really think it is more important to say what you believe because you are in the minority? Wouldn't it be just as important if you were in the majority?

WINDWALKER

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:13 PM

We are bound to this dimension
Ocassionally some of us are privy to an outer dimensional peep or looksee
I some cases it's called a religious experience when we look into the other dimension/s

Since in our presence condition we can only physically and mentally "accept" our present dimension, we can only glimpse the other for moments at a time.

If we look into the other we glimpse a dimension that others have called "Eternity"
Where there is no time, hence no aging and have dubbed the ageless process as "Eternal Life"
God is a resident of that dimension and that dimensional reference which has a different set of standards or"Laws" That which we call God has ultimate power under our current standards in this dimension

Those who depend on this dimension to the extreme cannot accept the other dimension out of fear of it's "laws"
this dimension is parallel yet not interactive by normal physical means. Therefore use prayer. The term "prayer" is a way of communication with this other dimension. Given to us by visitors from that dimension or from those who have contact with it,
The directions from that dimension in out livfestyles and are directions on how to obtain
residence in that other dimension.
Death is only a cessation of this existence in this dimension and is the cross over point of all who exist here.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

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