What are your thoughts on god? Part 2

POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 14:34
VIEWED: 17958
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MEENOL

Monday, January 16, 2006 9:49 AM

But then, to bring up the old chestnut, you gain nothing. If God does exist and you're wrong, you lose everything. If you believe in a God and your initial accreditation is right, you lose nothing. But if you're wrong (there is a God) and you believe in him, you gain everything.

I believe there is a God, as laid out in the Bible (six-day creation and all). There's a lot of historical evidence to back up both the OT's and the NT's claims (although the explanation of the six-day creation I don't entirely understand because I'm not a relativity expert, and I've only ever found this idea in one place).

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No, THIS is what going mad feels like.

GRAVY

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:00 AM

I'm like Kent, atheist as opposed to agnostic, but even if there would be a God for speculations sake I would just find it insulting that I or any other person should adhere to a higher power. If God is an authority, like he is in the bible, I wouldn't want to live my life by his rule or whatever. If my life belongs to God then what's the point? can you be free with the existence of a God?

MEENOL

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gravy:
can you be free with the existence of a God?

No. But then you can't be free as a human being in any meaningful way; chains are always there, but the chains of a creator are the ones we're meant to have.

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No, THIS is what going mad feels like.

KENT

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Meenol:
But then, to bring up the old chestnut, you gain nothing.
If God does exist and you're wrong, you lose everything. If you believe in a God and your initial accreditation is right, you lose nothing.
But if you're wrong (there is a God) and you believe in him, you gain everything.

I say I gain the knowledge that I have only one life (and it is short), and thus know not to waste it away. To me, that's invaluable. So I would in fact lose everything there is, I'd lose all of my existance, if I chose to believe in a God and there wasn't one.

Then of course, you're basing your position on a false dichotomy. That is, "Either there exists no god, or my god exists". What if it's Allah? Or the snozzwoggler (who only bring unbelievers to heaven)?

Quote:

I believe there is a God, as laid out in the Bible (six-day creation and all). There's a lot of historical evidence to back up both the OT's and the NT's claims (although the explanation of the six-day creation I don't entirely understand because I'm not a relativity expert, and I've only ever found this idea in one place).

I won't get into this, because from experience I know it will go into a whole debate thingy, and besides, it would probably go way off topic, which I'm sure the OP didn't want.
But needless to say I don't feel there's any compelling scientific evidence for any of the supernatural aspects of the Bible.

MRBEN

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:20 AM

Well - from what I've seen from this and Part1 (a quick skim read) I'm in the minority in that I'm a "fully paid-up" Christian. (By choice, rather than upbringing, that is, although I did have a Christian upbringing too)

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

GRAVY

Monday, January 16, 2006 11:11 AM

(Posted by Meenol)

No. But then you can't be free as a human being in any meaningful way; chains are always there, but the chains of a creator are the ones we're meant to have.

Yes, but we're not chained to other people in that negative sense. Free doesn't mean "without connection to anything else", the equality between human beings is a part of what makes us free. There is no equality in the master-servent relationship between man and a supposed God, and it's therefore, in my opinion, an unwanted relationship. Life doesn't become precious because "God" can take it from us, but because it's all we have. But of course, if you're Christian or of any other religion you most likely believe in the "after-life" or an existence beyond life - so maybe it's difficult for us to see eye to eye.

CARTOON

Monday, January 16, 2006 4:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Meenol:
But then you can't be free as a human being in any meaningful way; chains are always there, but the chains of a creator are the ones we're meant to have.

My sentiments, exactly.

I would much prefer a gracious and forgiving, perfect, all-knowing, all-powerful and loving God calling the shots (directing and restraining) my life than any (far from perfect) created being.

RIVER6213

Monday, January 16, 2006 4:54 PM

I just wish God knew I existed.

I feel like someone who was sent on a mission, and then left behind enemy lines after the misson was completed.

CYBERSNARK

Monday, January 16, 2006 5:09 PM

I'm kinda interested that no one's brought in the Gnostic Christian philosophy.

In the beginning there was God(dess), called Sophia (Wisdom). She tried to create another like her. This resulted in the creation of the Demiurge. The Demiurge couldn't recognize Sophia, and so thought it was God. This was the God of the Old Testament; jealous and vengeful. It created the world and us, and did all the other impressive things, then demanded to be worshipped.

Sophia is the God who created Jesus, to try to "fix" the Demiurge's flawed creation (or perhaps simply to exist within it --not stopping evil so much as making it impossible for evil to control everything).

Of course, there's also Satan in the mix.

I kinda feel sorry for him; he's always cast as the Prince of Lies. I don't believe he ever does. Everything Satan tells you is absolutely true. It's just not what you want to hear.

To go back to my post last thread (I gotta be somewhere, so I'll post more later), what I don't believe in is the concept of forbidden knowledge. I don't think there is anything we're not meant to know. There's just some stuff that we don't want to know, or aren't prepared to know ('cause we'd overreact to it or otherwise do something stupid).

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Nothing to do with god, just random trivia: I've been told that some species have as many as eight distinct sexes. (Never had the stomach to find out how that works.)

Well, there's the one sex that does nothing but referee. . .

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

THATWEIRDGIRL

Monday, January 16, 2006 5:37 PM

Now then, this 'man is free' stuff...Man has free will. We can choose to go to the movie or do laundry. To kill or volunteer. To love or run away. To believe or not to believe. Free will. Choice. Logical, or illogical, thought. Emotions. If I were in some theological debate discussing the whys of free will, I would say that it's no fun to create something that has to rely on you 24/7. He/she gave us free will because he couldn't not give us free will. It just so happens that this free will led to the infamous apple incident and, as some believe, to our curse. You leave a child in a room, tell him not to open the box and he's going to open the box. Even the most well behaved child, given enough time alone in that room, will eventually open the box. Curiosity is part of free will. We have free will. The ability to think, consider, and reason. We are not tied. We tie ourselves to loved ones, work, society, and religion. We are free but choose to not be free because it's safer.

As for the bible being an historical document, that’s true to some extent. There are many real events and real people described in the Bible. However, there are also many universal myths in there too. Pandora and Eve. Deucalion and Noah. Random Zeus love child and Mary’s pregnancy (that’ll get me a stoning). I’m not trying to say the Bible is a children’s storybook, I happen to be Catholic, mostly, but I find it interesting that the entire world shares the same stories.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
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"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

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