The Confederacy

POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Friday, January 13, 2006 15:19
VIEWED: 2863
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CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:16 PM

Obviously the Browncoats were modeled on the Confederates to some (significant) degree, even if Joss hadn't told us we would still know.

What I didn't realize in the beginning was the actual color of the coats probably is too. For those who don't know, as I didn't, because of the Confederacy's lack of resources they couldn't actually produce enough uniforms for their soldiers. So getting on in the war when they were running out of uniforms, and not getting new ones, they were forced to resort to rather morbid means.

They didn’t have Confederate gray uniforms, but they did have a fair number of dead people in Union blue. So they took the blue uniforms and dyed them, but dying blue doesn’t make gray, it makes brown. (Chestnut brown I’m told.) Thus the Confederate graycoats were in fact wearing brown. "Browncoats" isn’t a far leap away from that.

(If what I said not not competely accurate please correct me.)

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So here’s the question: are there other similarities that I, or others, might not have picked up on?

BOWIE

Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:26 PM

Well, there is the thing about when the war ended. Theres a set date by the allaince of when the war ended, and then they think of some big groups holding on for two weeks after their side surendered. There was a battle in the civil war that took place around the same amount of time after the war was over,because neither side had heard that the war was over, a battle in which the Rebs won, and then where told they had to surenerender by their own side.

I'v always woundered though if maybe without realizing it Joss took more from the war with England. After all, the english soldiers where often called Red Coats. (Brown Coats, red coats.) The people who were fighting them were colonists fighting against rule by people who didn't live in their country. The English gvernment sounds a lot more like the alliance, having parliments and stuff. The only real thing that keeps Firefly from having overwleming things allike is, in Firefly the colonists lost.

"we have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

LADYINGREY

Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:57 PM

The Confederacy had different color uniforms mainly because there wasn't one set uniform. Some of the states did issue uniforms for their troops, some of which were blue, while a large portion of states let regiments choose their own color. Many troops that joined went in whatever they had on had, the Victorian version of jeans and a button down shirt. Some of the uniform wool that was dyed faded to a chestnut brown color, but the Confederate troops never tried to dye Yankee uniforms gray. If a troop didn't have access to material, he wouldn't have had access to dye. Besides, when would he have time to dye the material? When they weren't marching, they were entrenched or fighting during a battle. Supplies, including clothing and food, were so desperately needed by the end of the war that the Confederates did take anything they could lay their hands on. A dead man doesn't need boots. While most of the war took place in Southern states, there were many campaigns in places with very cold temperatures. As a woman from Mississippi I can assure you, if I were having to sleep outside in snow, I would strip a dead body down to his underwear for warmth if necessary. And then take his underwear. It was 40 degrees F here last weekend and I froze my ass off. In short (too late), the Confederacy did have various colors for uniforms: from the known gray, to blue, to brown, or even seized Yankee uniforms. Hell, the battle of Gettysburg started over shoes. But I have never heard of anyone trying to dye Yankee uniforms.

DUG

Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:16 PM

The scavenging for uniforms wasn't just from the southern side, either.

I've read the war diary of one of my ancestors. When he was captured at Gettysburg his boots and some other items were taken by the northern troops before he was forced to march to the POW camp Fort Delaware. In mid winter he still had no shoes even though the prisoners were forced to work in the snow every day. That wasn't as bad as the no food, though. When he died of the smallpox that was everywhere in the camp his best friend carried the diary back to his widow and the daughter he didn't know he had....

RKLENSETH

Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:25 PM

During the beginning of the war most of the Confederate troops wore blue because that was the most available color uniform. After countless battles especially the First Battle at Manassas with the confusion as to who was on whoms side the Confederacy decided to don Gray and found other dyes they could use. One of the most common dyes was a color called butternut that I believe is what you are talking about. It is far different from the Browncoat that Mal wears.

About the dying of Union uniforms, I have studied the Civil War for a long time and this is the first time I have heard of this. I would like to know where you got this information from. Thanks.

And the war didn't end with the surrender of Lee. Johnson in the Carolinas held out for a while longer against Sherman and other Confederates continued to fight. Lee's surrender just marked the end of the war in East and last nail being pounded into coffin. Out of every general and army that was left the Union feared Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia the most. The Union feared they would result to guerrilia warfare which would have led to years more of bloody conflict. Lee decided that it wasn't worth suffering this war anymore and thought it more honorable to surrender then to result in such tactics. With the surrender of Lee most of the rest of the Confederate soldiers stopped fighting when they learned of it.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rklenseth:
About the dying of Union uniforms, I have studied the Civil War for a long time and this is the first time I have heard of this. I would like to know where you got this information from. Thanks.

I got it second hand from a Mainer who has studied the Civil War in a non-profession purely out of personal interest manner for much of his life. But let me repeat, a Mainer.

We know the Civil War largely from J. L. Chamberlain’s part in Gettysburg and his accepting the surrender of arms and colors at Appomattox. Those two things and of course the Confederate we captured in Portland Harbor. (At least I think it was in the harbor, regardless he were held in South Portland.)

I will ask him where he got it from, if I remember, the next time I see him.

NOSADSEVEN

Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rklenseth:
One of the most common dyes was a color called butternut that I believe is what you are talking about. It is far different from the Browncoat that Mal wears.

Butternut is the primary alternate color I've seen, as well. It's different than the coat that Mal wears after the war, but seems very similar to the tannish color rags they were wearing during the actual battle scene flashbacks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

TANSTAAFL28

Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:37 PM

Even amongst the Union troops there were some rather striking variations on uniforms. I remember a painting of a regiment that wore bright red baggy pants with their blue coats. They were 155th New York Regiment, also called Zouaves.

http://www.members.tripod.com/~howardlanham/link90.htm

http://www2.inxpress.net/jwedeward/index.htm

"You can't take the sky from me..."

BOWIE

Friday, January 13, 2006 2:52 AM

yeah, and known as red legs. :)

One of the only things I dislike about Serenity is the lack of economic hazards the war leaves in its wake. Everyone seems rich and happy, except the outlaws, who are, ah, outlaws....

PDCHARLES

Friday, January 13, 2006 4:21 AM

Mal does say we rise again... in Train Job.
I think that this could be derived from "the south will rise again" which was used by diehard confederates. (and even though the war ended over 137 years ago, still it is used)

…and I always thought he spoke like a southern gentleman from say around Atlanta during the civil war period. ('cept for Gorram and such)

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