Evolution Sucks!
POSTED BY: dougp59
UPDATED: Monday, July 27, 2026 16:36
VIEWED: 32323
PAGE 13 of 20
dreamtrove:
You should look into philosophy a bit, "I can envision" and "I can't envision" are very, very weak arguments and have been used to "prove" god, "disprove" god, "prove" free will, "prove" determinism, "prove" compatiblism, "prove" the existiance of souls, prove … well you get the idea, I hope.
Science as we know it was originally philosophy (and by a strict definition still is) but it has the distinction of not using that kind of argument but instead using the scientific method in an attempt to achieve better and better approximations of reality.
The idea of god is one that exists outside of all of that, sort of. If a god evolved like people than that god doesn’t even meet most peoples definitions of god, that is the type of god that would fall victim to your envisioning a set of circumstances.
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If god is instead a force of nature then it is as easy or difficult to envision as the warping of space by mass or the speed of light being constant.
If god is a statistical phenomena of grouping than the circumstances necessary for it are the same as the ones that make the sequence 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 appear in random number sequences (which it does.)
If god is the creator of the universe than that idea seems just as delusional as the idea that the big bang simply happened. That has always seemed the supreme joke to me, god aside the only thing as absurd as the idea that there was an uncaused event (be it god or the big bang or something else) is the idea that there wasn’t (and thus an infinite sequence.)
If god is a being which really can defy the laws of physics (seems absurd to me to begin with, why create the laws if you’re going to break them?) than it seems just as absurd as the idea that you can have a dream where there is a force of gravity but you can fly.
I can go on, but the point is simply that the idea of there being a god is absurd in some renditions of god, but few I have seen are any less absurd than things we take for granted. Also in the first three hardly seem delusional to me, at least no more so than the warping of space, math as a whole (which I support as one of the most useful things in history), and the start of the universe.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dougp59:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hitler a Christian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not, I'm not sure he would be the *worst* christian whoever lived.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spinland:
I believe you are correct, Chris, and in a later post I softened that statement with some clarification.
Yeah, I saw that actually.
Sometimes I read through all posts before I respond, but others I respond as I read to avoid forgetting what I want to respond to.
I was doing the second then, and am in fact doing it now.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Christhecynic:
god aside the only thing as absurd as the idea that there was an uncaused event (be it god or the big bang or something else) is the idea that there wasn’t (and thus an infinite sequence.)
The idea that the big crunch (the end of this universe) could cause the big bang (the start of this universe) isn't so weird because between the two time and cause and effect do not exist.
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warping of space
Space isn't warped, space-time is. It's a subtle but vital distinction.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Frankly Steven Hawking among all of the worlds leading physicist subscribe to singularities and mostly to the big bang.
In one of his books Steven Hawking said he was researching a theory that said the big bang never happened, are you saying he gave up on (or disproved) that theory?
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Steven Hawking is an advocate of Big Bang theory. I can look in to creationism, doesn't mean I'm a creationist.
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Another misconception is that we tend to image the singularity as a little fireball appearing somewhere in space. According to the many experts however, space didn't exist prior to the Big Bang. Back in the late '60s and early '70s, when men first walked upon the moon, "three British astrophysicists, Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose turned their attention to the Theory of Relativity and its implications regarding our notions of time. In 1968 and 1970, they published papers in which they extended Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to include measurements of time and space.1, 2 According to their calculations, time and space had a finite beginning that corresponded to the origin of matter and energy."3 The singularity didn't appear in space; rather, space began inside of the singularity. Prior to the singularity, nothing existed, not space, time, matter, or energy - nothing. So where and in what did the singularity appear if not in space? We don't know. We don't know where it came from, why it's here, or even where it is. All we really know is that we are inside of it and at one time it didn't exist and neither did we.
http://www.big-bang-theory.com/ (Underlining added)
I think I know the theory your talking about, but I'm going to have to look it up, bare with me.
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To Spinland
I agree with most things you have said before, now that you have clarified them, but I think you are being a little bit too harsh with the following:
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Yep, that's pretty much it. If you can't accept that, well, tough rocks. It's reality, and as I said before, reality bites sometimes.
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Meaningless drivel referencing a "god" which doesn't exist.Please, continue to believe in your make-believe god if it comforts you
God is hardly disproven, and even when I didn't believe in god I didn't think people should say things like that. I don't think people should be so derogetory about the opposition on things that are truely unknow, and god remains one of them.
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but I reserve the right to hold you and your imaginary playmate in contempt
This however I have no problem with at all. I personally would have said, "Your god," but that is an unimportant disinction when the one saying it doesn't believe in the god.
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--and to do so with impunity, since there's no such thing as any divine retribution for my failure to kiss your god's divine ass.
And to this my response is to go for it. If I am right, and the god I believe in does exist, acting like that will earn you more divine respect than kissing ass out of fear or hellfire (or fear in general.) If I am wrong that still earns you more of my respect because you believe what you believe out of conviction, not fear or greed.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Space isn't warped, space-time is. It's a subtle but vital distinction.
I actually know that, which makes me feel all the stupider for not having that reflected in what I wrote.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Steven Hawking is an advocate of Big Bang theory. I can look in to creationism, doesn't mean I'm a creationist.
My wording seems to be worse than normal, or perhaps it was always bad and I didn't notice.
I thought he was trying to prove the theory he was looking into. You seem to know more about this than I do so I'll take your word on it.
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You seeming to know more reminds me, I've been trying to figure something out.
I've been told there is no such thing as absolute speed (save that of light in a vacuum.) If something is not accelerating it is at rest from its frame of reference and moving from another, but neither is more correct.
However I have also been told that as something accelerates towards the speed of light it gains mass. If that is true couldn't one simply measure the mass of, say, a hydrogen proton, in a non accelerating object and from that determine whether it is moving faster or slower than another non-accelerating object that has had a similar measurement? (By seeing which has more mass, of course.)
If that is not true why isn't it?
If that is true wouldn't that mean there is such a thing as absolute speed?
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There's so much to respond to in this thread. Finally done for now though.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Christhecynic:
And to this my response is to go for it. If I am right, and the god I believe in does exist, acting like that will earn you more divine respect than kissing ass out of fear or hellfire (or fear in general.) If I am wrong that still earns you more of my respect because you believe what you believe out of conviction, not fear or greed.
One of the most enlightened responses I've read on this subject. I don't hold to the Christian god of the Bible, because I believe that god would be what the bible says what god is supposed to be.
It's hard to explain. The Christian god is infinitely forgiving and compassionate, yet murders the first born of Egypt? Small children, babies, innocents in the true sense of the word. That I don't get. It's an act that is all together too human.
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I actually know that, which makes me feel all the stupider for not having that reflected in what I wrote.
Didn't mean to make you feel stupid...
It's a point that people often stumble on, which makes their understanding of the ideas completely screwed, which is possibly where my misunderstanding came from.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.
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