Evolution Sucks!

POSTED BY: dougp59
UPDATED: Monday, July 27, 2026 16:36
VIEWED: 32323
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CHRISTHECYNIC

Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dougp59:
To those that have actually taken the time to go through my site and to actively explore the links presented there, cudos. Even if you don't agree with me, at least you have broken with the herd and have shown some real independence.

I have in fact journeyed to your site, and followed many of the links there, but I have not yet built up a coherent picture of exactly what it is you believe.

For example one of your links leads me to a site with the sentence:
The question we’re concerned about here is not whether we can rule out every conceivable naturalistic theory, but whether scientists have shown that biological systems evolved naturalistically.

A noble goal, to be sure, but hardly and argument for your side. If it has not been conclusively shown it only means that we need not take it as solid fact, it hardly means that we need to accept the next theory in line, it doesn’t even mean we need to reject it.

Your sites show nothing that even implies scientific research of the point at which specified complexity is indicative of intelligence. It does say that things that exist now are extremely unlikely as a result of random choice, but it does not deal with directed non-intelligent choice from random occurrence.

The current theory of evolution is refuting the idea that life is random, rather it states that life changed randomly, but evolved by directed by choice based on survival.

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The truth is that Hitler was an avid and devout christian, and a die hard creationist.

While this is (more or less) true I think his point was that all of us dirty heathens believe that when we die we will receive the same treatment as the Christian who was Hitler.

For those amoung us who do not believe in an afterlife that is completely true, however it is hardly an argument for his case.

Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
So how did you get into firefly?

Something we all want to know, I'm sure, but I figured I'd give him the benifit of the doubt and assume he simply wants to bring other fans "to the light," and therefore respect his right to have an off topic thread.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Something we all want to know, I'm sure, but I figured I'd give him the benifit of the doubt and assume he simply wants to bring other fans "to the light," and therefore respect his right to have an off topic thread.

Hmm, how Doug got to the site...

Search for a site with a high hit rate, has a forum and a user base that is intelligent, and unlikly to believe drival like ID is 'science' and post.

This brings us to the conclusion that doug is a what?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.

AERIN

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:13 AM

Oh, come on, Doug had the T-word written all over him right from the get go, but there are way too many intelligent, well-informed people on this site not to have a discussion about something as philosophically and scientifically interesting as evolution. I only wish Doug really supported Intelligent Design instead of closet-Creationism. Then we could have a real discussion with him. You can't discuss anything fundamentalists.

In reality, we are enjoying a stimulating discussion with eachother while laughing at the sillies.

Jayne: I once hit a guy in the neck from 500 yards with a bent scope. Don't that count upstairs?
Book: Oh, it'll be taken into consideration.
Jayne: You made that sound kind of ominous.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:21 AM

Quote:
To those that have actually taken the time to go through my site and to actively explore the links presented there, cudos. Even if you don't agree with me, at least you have broken with the herd and have shown some real independence.

I and others HAVE gone to your website and, by golly, we answered your questions about DNA (thanks DT for making that explicit) and transitional fossils (punctuated equilibrium, the speed of light (altho irrelevant to this discussion), SETI (improper analogy), and the amopunt of DNA (not necessary for complex creatures to have more DNA).

However, you haven't provided us any reasoning or evidence as to why we should consider your... umm... theory. How do you account for fossils? What is the role of DNA and heritability in your...um.. theory? How do you account for the apparent age of the universe? I think it's time that you answered ours.

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Please don't think they give a shit.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:28 AM

Yeah, Just wanted to dispel the myth the Dougy-boy could be anything but a certain under bridge dwelling anthropomorphic...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:00 AM

Quote:
I just want to point out that it is my understanding Jefferson was actually a devout Christian, he simply believed that god wanted people to use their brains. I agree with that belief, and I believe every religion should agree.

It's my understanding that many Founding Fathers were deists and some were agnostics. In their view god should be discovered through nature. Christian religion, the Bible, and the clergy were all pretty much looked on as something between quaint and dangerous.

Quote:
Deists do not accept the belief of most religions that God revealed himself to humanity through the writings of the Bible, the Qur'an or other religious texts.... They regard their faith as a natural religion, as contrasted with one that is revealed by a God or which is artificially created by humans. They reason that since everything that exists has had a creator, then the universe itself must have been created by God. Thomas Paine concluded a speech shortly after the French Revolution with: "God is the power of first cause, nature is the law, and matter is the subject acted upon."

www.religioustolerance.org/deism.htm As such, they were not Christian although many of them would come close to Intelligent Designists (if indeed IDists were not simply Fundamentalist Xtians in disguise). The Founding Father's outlook wasn't derived from Christianity as much from the French Enlightenment. Don't forget that the Founding Fathers weren't backwoods hicks. They knew of Rousseau, Voltaire, and other Enlightenment figures.

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Please don't think they give a shit.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:16 AM

Saying intelligent design is christianity in disguise is like saying that this guy, who actually wore this while robbing a bank, was travelling in cognito:

Also, those founding fathers were masons, and modern day, well 18th century rather than 14th, illuminati, which means they did not believe in the power of the church, or the church-state which is why we have separation of church and state.

SPINLAND

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:35 AM

An interesting article about the founding fathers and deism:

http://www.lawfulgov.org/deists.htm

Many insightful quotations and factoids, from numerous sources, bearing on how the founding fathers, clearly and explicitly, do NOT endorse christianity as the basis for American law, and indeed clearly speak of the need to prevent such endorsement:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ed_buckner/quotations.html

Any fundamentalist christian who pretends the founding fathers envisioned a christian nation is either ignorant of the facts, or baldly lying. There is no middle ground there.

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"That's what governments are for, [to] get in a man's way." -- Malcolm Reynolds

CHRISTHECYNIC

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:33 AM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they endorced any religion. It is merely my understanding that Jefferson and others believed in Jesus as the Christ, that fact did not stop them from useing their brains and saying that others should do the same. Jefferson was (obviously) very clear on his belief that people should question everything.

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I will look into your links later, but I don't think a couple of web pages can fully capture the situtation. (I think that is true regardless of which of us is right.)

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My view is that god, who I do believe in, would not have put millions of years of evolution into giving us brains if we were meant to defy all logic in an attempt to blindly follow those who claim to know his will.

(If you are right than my views are, apparently, closer to the founding fathers than I thought.)

SPINLAND

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:51 PM

I think you'll enjoy the links, actually. In many of the lengthy quotes contained there it's clear to me some of them were definitely christians; it's also clear to me they were dedicated to not letting that belief system become enshrined as the law of the land. I have no problem with christians, muslims, wiccans, even discordians. I only take issue when a member of any faith attempts to push laws or teachings on non-believers; if you're not specifically asked, you keep your religion to yourself. It's that simple.

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"That's what governments are for, [to] get in a man's way." -- Malcolm Reynolds

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