Funding more Firefly

POSTED BY: FlyerFie
UPDATED: Thursday, January 26, 2006 00:40
VIEWED: 7364
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FLYERFIE

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:09 AM

(Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere on the site. I did look, but couldn't find anything similar)
At the time of starting this thread, the poll question asked fans how much they would be willing to donate to have a Firefly series or movie made. Being a mathematician, I decided to use the results of the poll to get an estimate of how much could be raised, and half a million seems to be a reasonable lower estimate.
I have several questions for people with more knowledge of film/TV than I:
1) How much money would be needed to make:
- a film?
- a series?
- a single episode?
2) Could a separate poll be started elsewhere on this site that gives people the opportunity to say exactly how much they would be willing to donate for a film, series, or single episode?
3) Can any bright sparks (preferrably with some knowledge/qualifications/both in computer science and law) think of a way that people could commit to a specific donation, without that money changing hands until the total money committed exceeded a pre-determined amount? (The reason for this is that there's no point us sending money to Joss until we're sure that the total contribution will be enough for him to use).
4) Is Joss wealthy enough (or going to be after up-coming projects) to fund it on his own, thus rending this entire idea pointless?
5) Is there any really obvious reason why this is a dumb idea?
6) If the poll is anything to go on, then over the next 3 years we could easily be capable of pooling together several million dollars.

WARNING: even the most intelligent of people have been ripped of by cheap internet scams. Just in case this post gives some nasty and greedy person any ideas, I advise that NO-ONE give ANY money to any Firefly donation pool that isn't clearly endorsed by Whedon and Mutant Enemy, and known to be secure. Please, don't be dumb when it comes to money and the internet.

Whhhheeeeee!

FLYERFIE

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:11 AM

Whoops! Obviously, question 6 is not a question. I'm not sure where I was going with that, but I'll post an addendum if I remember what I was going to ask...

NEVERED

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:15 AM

as far as episodes go, i know that they are, like most things, cheaper in bulk.

once you build the set (v. expensive) you can re-use it for any subsequent episodes.

i'm not saying that i have the vaguest idea of an answer to any of your questions, but i'm just saying that if you get an answer to #1, it's not as simple as x*22=cost of series.

FLYERFIE

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:31 AM

Good point. It's obvious when you think about it, but I hadn't thought about it yet.
I actually had something slightly different in mind when I asked about the cost of a single episode: If a film/series is too expensive, perhaps single episodes could be released gradually, one at a time. At last count, I had come up with several million flaws in this plan, and I imagine that even someone as passionate as Joss would perhaps not be willing to go through the incredible stress and frustration that such an approach would involve. Making it this way would require a whole new approach, and the scale of Firefly (multiple location-shoots, two huge sets, expensive CG) would probably not suit it.
I only really considered this approach in the interests of covering all possibilities.

WALKER04

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:27 AM

I've wondered about how to fund new episodes or movies ever since my brother sent me the dvds for Christmas (I then ran right out and bought Serenity). It seems that the obvious person to ask this question is Josh himself. Clearly he knows how much of the set/models are still available, how much in terms of out-takes that could be used in new episodes. Plus since he has already produced a year long series and a movie on the subject, he would be the person to address this issue.

No reason that fans couldn't become shareholders? It would certainly guarantee people in the audience and might make the additional funding needed to pull it off possible.

walker04

KANESKI

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:00 AM

Quote:

1) How much money would be needed to make:
- a film?
- a series?
- a single episode?

a film - around 45-50 mil.

series - My guess would be... 10-12 mil base + 1.5-1.7mil/episode. Plus overrun, marketing (hah! at F*x), not to mention opportunity cost (studio space, air time, everything else could be taken by a more profitable show - if there's no space in a studio, there's no space. Firefly would effectively have to edge out another show.) But I AM GUESSING.

single episodes, or even TV movies are simply impractical for a sci-fi show, due to the need to build up, then demolish, then rebuild the sets.

Quote:
2) Could a separate poll be started elsewhere on this site that gives people the opportunity to say exactly how much they would be willing to donate for a film, series, or single episode?

I'm only a 'verse convert since October 2005, but I'm willing to bet there have been 100s of these polls by now.

Quote:
3) Can any bright sparks (preferrably with some knowledge/qualifications/both in computer science and law) think of a way that people could commit to a specific donation, without that money changing hands until the total money committed exceeded a pre-determined amount? (The reason for this is that there's no point us sending money to Joss until we're sure that the total contribution will be enough for him to use).

Relatively simple to do, but expensive to set up. The simplicity is standard contract/fundraising/IPO rules - people are legally committed to give their money once a certain condition is met (certain condition being - enough commitment is made). I seriously doubt organising it via the internet, without the support of Mutant Enemy will have any weight to it. At all.

BUT

Given
a) The legal structure would have to be extremely complex. Organising it as a company or a trust would mean the company/trust would need full-time paid professionals not just from the moment there's enough commitments, but from the original signing on the company register. And if it takes 3-4 years to get the commitments - a lot of salaries to pay. Any other form of organisation wouldn't have the weight to it, and as much as I love and trust browncoats... doing it on trust alone isn't going to cut it.

b) Tax issues alone will be enough to kill a man.

c) Given that browncoats would probably donate internationally, it means additional experts, more law, more people to pay before the thing even starts. It could happen miraculously that we'll find browncoat with both the expertise and time to help, but that's highly unlikely.

Quote:
4) Is Joss wealthy enough (or going to be after up-coming projects) to fund it on his own, thus rending this entire idea pointless?

If it were the case, I imagine he'd weigh in after FF was cancelled. He's already had success before FF, so I don't see his wealth changing so significantly as to have enough spare for a revival.

Quote:
5) Is there any really obvious reason why this is a dumb idea?

Not dumb. Just too much trouble. And not enough people to sort it out.

Quote:
6) If the poll is anything to go on, then over the next 3 years we could easily be capable of pooling together several million dollars.

Even with say... 15000 coats, giving their 100-120/year, it would be a meager 5-6mil after 3 years. To do this properly, you'd need the same 15000 coats giving $800-1000 per year. And by the way, I'm pretty sure the studios know that a renewed FF series/mini/etc would make a profit. They just don't want to wait several years for that to happen, when they can do it with more certainty and much faster with another show. For the coats and other fans it's a question of liking a series. For the suits - it's a question of money. Call it evil, unfair, whatever. "Way it is is the way it is."

Personally, I think it's entirely plausible to partly raise money for another series/movie of Firefly. Here's the broad outline of what I think is probably the more realistic and possible approach:

First and f

FLETCH2

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:36 AM

You obviously haven't heard of "studio accounting." If you say something to a studio like "you don't have to pay us until you make back your investment +30%" guess what? That would never ever happen.

The ONLY way that fan money will ever result in a new series it to buy those DVDs.

If you REALLY want to directly contribute make fan films, write fan fic, keep the franchise going until someone decides to make the next film.

KANESKI

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:22 AM

I could go into an argument, but for me it would be a fight up a nearly vertical hill. You are right ofcourse Fletch. The point has been proven wrong and tried practically a few times (Enterprise comes to mind). I guess the point of my reply was basically to say that financing a whole season ourselves is impossible, and the $100+ per year poll is nowhere near enough.

But hey, as long as there are fanfics, conventions and all of that franchise-making, there will always be new theoretical methods of financing them. I guess I've just had my theory.

TURQUOISE

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:45 AM

Quote:
"If you REALLY want to directly contribute make fan films, write fan fic, keep the franchise going until someone decides to make the next film."

Or... I wonder what would happen if all the people willing to "donate" would spend their money on, say, 2 extra copies of the Series set off of Amazon.
And then give them away... To anyone!

This would accomplish a flood of sales for Amazon, AND promote the show tremendously by creating new fans to whoever you gave the DVDs to. You could even put them out in the open at a shopping center and put a note on them saying "FREE - This is a great series that you'll love!"

That might spread the word and the popularity of the show even more poignantly.

Or is it a crazy idea?? They did say in the special features that the coats are remarkable people who have done some amazing stuff to help the show... But this would ensure that the money would go toward making the show sell more.

Hmm.... The Free Firefly Project....

FLETCH2

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:59 AM

Well though the series DVD's will make more Browncoats it doesnt help us to persuade Universal to make more movies because they won't see that money.

Dunno

Buy movie DVD's and give them to folks in comic and gaming stores?

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