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Cantonese Is Losing Its Voice

POSTED BY: cljohnston108
UPDATED: Sunday, January 8, 2006 23:39
VIEWED: 3092
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Sunday, January 8, 2006 2:41 PM

Quote:

Los Angeles Times January 3, 2006 COLUMN ONE

Cantonese Is Losing Its Voice
• Speakers of the spicy tongue that can make words of love sound like a fight are having to learn its linguistic kin, the mellower Mandarin.

By David Pierson, Times Staff Writer


Carson Hom's family has run a thriving fortune cookie and almond cookie company in Los Angeles County for 35 years.

And for much of that time, it was a business that required two languages: Cantonese, to communicate with employees and the Chinese restaurants that bought the cookies, and English, to deal with health inspectors, suppliers and accountants.

But when Hom, 30, decided to start his own food import company, he learned that this bilingualism wasn't enough anymore.

He checked out the competition at a recent Chinese products fair in the San Gabriel Valley and found that he couldn't get much further than "hello" in conversing with vendors.

"I can't communicate," said Hom, whose parents are from Hong Kong. "Everyone around used to speak Cantonese. Now everyone is speaking Mandarin."

Cantonese, a sharp, cackling dialect full of slang and exaggerated expressions, was never the dominant language of China. But it came to dominate the Chinatowns of North America because the first immigrants came from the Cantonese-speaking southern province of Guangdong, where China first opened its ports to foreigners centuries ago.

It is also the chief language of Hong Kong, the vital trading and financial center that became China's link to the West.

But over the last three decades, waves of Mandarin-speaking mainland Chinese and Taiwanese immigrants have diluted the influence of both the Cantonese language and the pioneering Cantonese families who ran Chinatowns for years.

The surging Chinese economy today has challenged Cantonese further. Because Mandarin is China's official language, entrepreneurs like Hom have been forced to adapt, often learning the hard way that business can't be done with Cantonese alone.

Many Cantonese speakers are racing to learn Mandarin any way they can — by watching Chinese soap operas, attending schools, paying for expensive immersion courses and even making more Mandarin-speaking friends. This is no cinch. Although Cantonese and Mandarin share the same written language, they are spoken as differently as English and French.

At the same time, few people are learning Cantonese. San Jose State University and New York University offer classes, but they are almost alone among colleges with established Cantonese communities. The language is not taught at USC, UCLA, Pasadena City College, San Francisco State or Queens College in New York, to name a few.

With the changes, some are lamenting — in ways they can do only in Cantonese — the end of an era. Mandarin is now the vernacular of choice, and they say it doesn't come close to the colorful and brash banter of Cantonese.

"You might be saying, 'I love you' to your girlfriend in Cantonese, but it will still sound like you're fighting," said Howard Lee, a talk show host on Cantonese language KMRB-AM (1430). "It's just our tone. We always sound like we're in a shouting match. Mandarin is so mellow. Cantonese is strong and edgy."

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Cantonese is said to be closer than Mandarin to ancient Chinese. It is also more complicated. Mandarin has four tones, so a character can be intonated four ways with four meanings. Cantonese has nine tones.

Beginning in the 1950s, the Chinese government tried to make Mandarin the national language in an effort to bridge the myriad dialects across the country. Since then, the government has been working to simplify the language, renamed Putonghua, and give it a proletarian spin. To die-hard Cantonese, no fans of the Communist government, this is one more reason to look down on Mandarin.

Many say it is far more difficult to learn Cantonese than Mandarin because the former does not always adhere to rules and formulas. Image-rich slang litters the lexicon and can leave anyone ignorant

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 6:26 PM

A lot of the funnier Firefly chinese is Cantonese. Mandarin isn't all that funny, it's stately and stuffy.

If I'd make an analogy I'd say mandarin is the language of the Alliance (or mainland communist China) and cantonese are the independents (free-thinking Hong Kong).

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 6:39 PM

Wait a minute? i all of the Chinese was mandarin?

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shingy:
Wait a minute? i all of the Chinese was mandarin?



No, there are thousands of dialects. Mandarin (Potungwa) comes in at #1 and Cantonese is at #2.

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 7:37 PM

I think what Shingy meant is that he thought all the Chinese spoken in Firefly was Mandarin, which is the impression I was under as well.

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 7:42 PM

Quote:

A lot of the funnier Firefly chinese is Cantonese.


The only Cantonese lines in Firefly are from the ship's computer in "Out of Gas," and they were only done that way by mistake. Everything else is Mandarin.

Joss had actually meant to go with Cantonese, but got stuck with Mandarin through another mistake. Looks like he might've lucked in after all.

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Sliders: Gate Haven - http://slidersweb.net/blinker

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 7:48 PM

Gosse (doggy poop) sounds a lot like Cantonese, but I suppose some Manderin and Cantonese sound a like after all. There are some other things which sounded cantonese that slip my mind but I remember laughing out loud to.

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:19 PM

Gou se is Mandarin. A lot of the Chinese in Firefly sounds like Cantonese because they speak it wrong. When they curse they speak harshly and they drag out sylables like they would if they were cursing in English and it ends up sounding more like Cantonese. I'm sure Cantonese is more expressive for those who were raised speaking it, but if you know how to speak Mandarin well it can be just as passionate and humourous.

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ethan:
A lot of the funnier Firefly chinese is Cantonese. Mandarin isn't all that funny, it's stately and stuffy.

If I'd make an analogy I'd say mandarin is the language of the Alliance (or mainland communist China) and cantonese are the independents (free-thinking Hong Kong).



"Firefly" (2002/I)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/
Language: English / Mandarin

Disclaimer and Resources - Firefly-Serenity Chinese Pinyinary
http://fireflychinese.home.att.net/resources.html

Firefly Chinese with pinyin and characters
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=14&t=3113

Simple Mandarin-Chinese phrases for Firefly fans (Cool thread!)
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=14&t=8364

Rachel's Pages - Mandarin phrases
http://www.jiawen.net/phrases.html

List of Firefly curse words - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Firefly_curse_words

...and I believe Jane Espenson says something like, "I'd like to think we taught the world a little bit of Mandarin," in the "Here's How It Was" documentary on the DVD.

---------------

Deep Thoughts...
...by Jack Handey...

"Whether they ever find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be considered an enemy planet."

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