Ways to Restore Firefly as a Series: A few possibilites

POSTED BY: ImperialKnight
UPDATED: Thursday, April 20, 2006 19:51
VIEWED: 19644
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IMPERIALKNIGHT

Friday, November 11, 2005 8:19 AM

Although the more DVDs are bought the better Firefly's chances, remember that all profits of the DVD Series go to FOX unless as I've said there is an exploitable loophole in FOX's copyrights as to a resurgence of the series such the case can be made that FOX only owns the rights to the original 13 episodes and not any longer the rights to the series itself (in the present or future tense). It is difficult to find out the precise nature of the rights Joss acquired from those halfwits at FOX. Maybe our fearless leader has a card he doesn't even know he has and even if that's not the case - Universal bought the idea for a movie thanks to our dedication in supporting the cause through those DVD sales. Any spikes in DVD sales even if those twisted bloodsuckers (at FOX) reap the monetary benefit of our efforts, we will whet Universal (and Scifi's) appetite for profit and provide (hopefully) the fuel for Firefly's rebirth to television (perhaps with some...aggressive... negotiations either in the ruthless exploitation of aforementioned loophole by Scifi/Universal or by the same token, cutting a deal with the FOX Productions and bypass the vociferous FOX Network entirely).

The goal is to convince Scifi to bite (by previously mentioned methods or others as yet unmentioned) or through the forceful acquistion of ALL rights to ALL things Firefly under a new company which could then profit through these acquisitions and accrue sufficient investment to go public under the parameters already suggested. Perhaps with the profits and some largese from Scifi (a partnership, perhaps?), we can work to give the sky back to Serenity. A lot of work and risk involved but we must find some way (in or outside the box) to make Scifi listen to us if we hope to ever see Serenity fly again in the medium and on the channel that seems so right somehow as the vehicle for its rebirth.

On a unrelated note, anyone notice that the cost for the Firefly/Serenity was unnaturally high for what we got? I was confused until I saw that Joss likes to work IN LA. Quite insane, to pay that many millions to buy computers to do CGI/VHX scripting/modeling even counting up all the people. If the high cost of the series per episode led (if anyone knows any other rationale for why FOX cancelled the BEST Scifi show ever that doesn't include perfectly reasonable questions concerning their parentage that wasn't mentioned in my earlier posts in this thread, then I'm listening...) to our beloved series' untimely demise is attributable to the excessive maintenance cost of LA's hollywood studio scene AFTER the sets are built, staff hired, sponsors lined up, advertisements canned, etc., then I have to ask (before I'm violently ill) why? The initial cost is fixed, FOX owned the studios and presumably employed all the necessary staff (equivalency factored in compared with other comparable shows - cancels out as normal operating costs). Every Firefly episode didn't require legions of CGI modelers or hordes of special effects artists. You know they didn't pay the cast multimillions (each) to do the movie or many hundred thousands of dollars (each) to do the series and I don't see anyone else bilking that kind of difference from the till. So what drove the price up into the stratospheric realm of me feeling like Joss was ripped off. Firefly/Serenity is (obviously) NOT Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. There were a few locations, some special effects (enough to satisfy), plus a few sets but the emphasis was on character development, excellent writing, and superb direction with a dynamically adriot cast - not on epic special effects every thirty seconds or lots of massively large and visually stimulating space/land battles. So I am left with these questions:

What/Who drove the cost up so high? (either Movie or Series)

AND

Is this cost the reason Scifi won't force FOX to cough up the rights? (despite its success in showing the re-runs on their network)

Any takers?

GORRAMCOFFEEHEAD

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:58 PM

Hey folks, I'm a newly-fitted Browncoat (still a little tight across the shoulders, they're issuing these things so fast must've got the wrong size... ). Just watched the whole history of this show in about 10 days and am completely, entirely sold.

A few comments, regarding the comments on cost, allow me to give you some perspective on that, having worked in post-prod. in LA and lived there for quite some time, as well as several friends/acquaintances in various parts of the bus.

First thing, Serenity was made for ~$39M, which is very reasonable, bordering on cheap for the film delivered. Whedon, his UPM, etc., busted...many body parts...I'm sure to achieve that, and Zoic isn't getting rich (if they were, they'd never get work again - studios don't like paying people, esp. if they think actual profit could be involved ;-). Theirs is a very, very competitive business, and many VFX shops perpetually hover on the point of "uh, why are we doing this exactly?", as the money side of it goes...

I don't think production costs were ever a problem in the series. Besides -- if a realistic proposed budget for the show were too high, Fox wouldn't have ordered the episodes in the first place (did I mention studios don't like to spend money? Ever?)

While it is comparatively pricey to shoot in LA, doing that for Serenity was a call Whedon made to remain close to his family (see related LA Times article, "Down-Home Directing" http://www.calendarlive.com/movies/reviews/cl-ca-homefront9oct09,0,759
3222.htmlstory), and I don't blame him. Also, as DP Jack Green and many, many other directors & DPs have pointed out, the union crews found in LA county are the best in the world, period. Typically, lighting & setting up the shot is the greatest time expense on a film set. Know where the fastest & most skilled grips, gaffers & FX Sup's in the world live? Yep. You get what you pay for. Faster = less days of production, and for any given approved budget, less days = happy noises at the other end of when you call the studio ;-)

In fact, while watching this film I was actually impressed with the ingenuity & care that was taken to save money (a healthy chunk saved on the mule seq. in the beginning by using non-CG FX), and equally impressed with the results. As I mentioned earlier, Joss chose to not be too far away from his wife & kids during principal photog., and by most accounts went out of his way to cover for that.

All that said, I think the ideas regarding a fan-based investment strategy are very, very interesting indeed, and would not be dismissed out of hand if presented in a managed, structured fashion to (and by) the right parties. Funny you mentioned it, as after I watched the last disc of the series last night that's exactly what I was thinking. Money talks, and if it's real capital talking and not just the wind blowing, I guarantee you someone will listen. They may not say what you want, but you'll get an audience, and that's all you can ever hope for in show business anyway.

This show has the tremendous benefit of having a built-in viewer base, and they're an infectious & persistent lot (if my friends were any indication!) With good reason too, because this story has brilliant writing, brilliantly-cast actors that just slam it home every time, every one of them, and a director that sees this world as clear as the sky overhead. Also, it's the best there is, and that must count for something.

So is anyone organizing a money effort? Are there draft proposals in existence? Seems to me Sci-Fi is the most obvious fit, if they can afford it.

(Coat's fittin' better now...had the sleeve inside-out)

AAHHAAA

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 3:03 PM

Several SF shows have pulled a comeback, most notably the latest (and highly popular) incarnation of Dr.Who in the UK.

I think there is another factor that must be considered too.
Joss' stories make conformist (money/power) types nervous. Mixed marriages, sheperds consorting with companions, gaudy Chinese obscenities... you'll notice these elements have already pretty much been removed from the storyline.

I'd put it like this: how do we protect Joss's freedom of storytelling, when the biz itself is treating Joss like the Alliance treated River?

DRAVAS

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:17 AM

I dont believe the budget has Sci-Fi and the other channels worried, if that was the case the movie would have been shot down before people said word one. No its the legal battle Fox will make as soon as the series jumps ship. Remember they are making profit off the dvd sales and selling the rights to other stations. A movie fox can not own and cannot use copyright law because its a movie not a tv series. So i do believe we must move and attack like the alliance and attack side ways. A mini series is not like a TV series its simliar to a anime ova, now to make one step further you base the mini series base the series off the movie or how ever you want to define it. Make sure the name is changed remember fox owns the rights to "Firefly". You just have to move side ways and find a place willing to move sideways with you. Anyways thats my two bits.

KISHI

Thursday, January 5, 2006 6:17 AM

There's probably a really good reason for why this hasn't happened, but I'm gonna toss it up anyway. Joss has had a very positive and very successful relationship with Warner Bros. He enjoyed a lot of television success with them, with Buffy and Angel, right?

It was this company which had enough faith in him after Buffy's movie debut to give him that chance - and it payed off big. Why couldn't this be the case again? What's stopping them from taking that chance again?

This must be what going mad feels like!

NANASHI

Thursday, January 5, 2006 6:29 PM

In brief: Sell them on iTunes...

~

I'm a new recruit here, so I hope you'll all forgive me if I speak out of turn, but here's my contribution to your ideas..

I think the most important thing right now is not more Firefly, but more awareness. It's still unclear (to me, at least) whether Joss and everyone else involved want to do more, or whether the movie was just needed to lay it all to rest.. as sad as that seems.

There is so much joy to be had, by so many people, through this series, if only it was known about! Even as a new browncoat, I've already read of the appauling marketing Firefly had.

There really aren't that many shows (20..? or so) on iTunes at the moment, but there are a great deal of iPod owners (10 million+). Regardless of anyone's opinion on Apple, there's no denying if they were sold on there it would create so much more recognition. And it wouldn't cost any money either.

And then, in the future.. who knows?

Just my two cents, for what it's worth. I'm just so overwhelmed by Firefly, and Serenity, that I just.. feel so helpless about it all, which I'm sure isn't a feeling unique to me...

Edit: Sorry Shirlockc -- I missed your comment on 'pay-per-episode' model, which kind of fits in with what I'm saying, first time round

FOLLOWMAL

Thursday, January 5, 2006 6:41 PM

Welcome Nanashi! No, feeling helpless isn't unique, it's normal, lol. That is the feeling you have after falling in love with this 'verse and then knowing how hard the battle to get more is gonna be. We are all in the same boat, believe me.

You'll find this a shiny place and I hope you come to feel as much at home as I do.

I agree that the iTunes thing is a good idea. We need more people to be aware of this show and movie. If they are even tempted to see them, and then do-they will be hooked by them. For certain.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

AMITON

Thursday, January 5, 2006 8:52 PM

I love the iTunes model as well. Be gentle with me as I offer what I would consider a shudder-to-think scenario that makes me wonder why this is a scary venture for a network...

I admit in advance that this is all just things that rattle around in the back of my head:

Looking at the BDMs *rental* numbers, we moved $1.64M in US-only rentals in the first week. Let's say that is at $5 per rental; that is, give or take, 300K rentals (again, in the first week and only in the US). Looking at no other numbers, if only half of those viewers continue interest in the series, then there's 150K viewers right there.

So, let's say Fox plays meanie and keeps the rights to themselves. If they took those 150K viewers, keeping in mind that that number doesn't take into account any diehards (we all *BOUGHT* the BDM, not rented it, right?) or any international numbers and put it on iTunes at $2 per episode, that's $300K in revenue. I can't imagine it costs much of anything for the content itself other than some deal in a boardroom somewhere...

Of course, not all of these people necessarily have video iPods, but then let's look at the rest of the almost guaranteed success. Going by the belief that each episode cost $2M (and there was something about that being inflated, too) -- we make another full-blown series, right? That's an hour-long episode's worth of advertising every week. Then we do have the additional revenue pools of international sales and the loyal Browncoats...who most of us would probably buy each episode two or three times just to make sure she kept flying...

If the BDM DVDs are still selling at number 5 or 6 in the second week, and were number 3 the first 5 days out, then ther *has* to be more than a million units moved, don't there? Just to hold those positions? If 1M browncoats download a $2 episode every week, then that's break-even right there, no effort, guaranteed. That can break down to 500K to buy it twice, or some of us would probably pull it 10 times a week if needed (for $20...why not?) and that only would require 100K of us, total, and I'm *quite* positive that we have those numbers. With all of the other avenues of revenue building (DVD sales, franchise merchandising, book rights, whatever), and the potential to reduce production costs over time (no more sets to build for example), then it doesn't seem possible for someone to lose money on the deal. That in and of itself defeats the concept of a "gamble." There's no long shot to worry about. There's no crossing fingers and hoping.

I don't see how we can make a much stronger case (but bringing the message to the masses never hurts!). Hell, they don't even have to advertise much since we do all of that for them by word of mouth!

Ever hopeful,
Amiton.

LIGHT1984

Friday, January 6, 2006 1:59 AM

First of all, I must say IMPERIALKNIGHT that you have an incredible talent for writing, each of your posts are very well thought out and yours ideas are constructed in a much better fashion than mine. I hope you believe me, I did not steal your idea, merely thought of the exact same thing, and you can read my post over in the general discussion forum. Someone in my thread had mentioned that there were several posts like this, so I thought I would make another post and consolidate them all, then I found yours. To me this one seems to have the most professional feel to it, and that is what we will need, to show that we are serious to who it matters as mentioned in another post above. I think our ideas are completely possible. You, and other posters touched on several points I was hoping someone could answer in my thread. I think the next move from here is to start organizing people to do certain things, contacting those that can help and those that hold positions of power, and people to start constructing our proposals. The part where we collect money from the fans, that will be a cake walk. So sign me up, let me know what I can do to help. Lets do more than get the ball rolling, lets put the sum-bitch in a cannon and launch it.

THECOLLECTOR

Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:18 AM

We've got to be the Cockroach...

You know those leftovers you thought you threw away in the back of the Freezer?

We just have to stick around... don't think that this has gone from the cast's mind or Joss himself... Because it hasn't. I believe this is the Unfinsished Script and he just has a case of Writers Block.

Wait till After Wonder Woman... (People eat up the Super Hero stuff like it's Candy...) but stay active (I know it's like telling something about yourself to a reader). Wait till after "Goners". Maybe he gets some prestidigitation. Maybe he can get some serious extra revenue. Go see the movies... even if it's not your thing... it still will result in some kind of money to Joss...

Maybe after two succsessful Blockbusters... he can sell something to the Sci-Fi channel about a show that he knows that could bring in tons of viewers. Maybe Sci-Fi... could then give him some air-time to do a Mini-Series (Like the Battlestar Galactica Mini)... somehow that brought in enough people to get it created into a Series.

Wait it out... Don't go away... Be Active...

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