Firefly and the Heinlein Connection.
POSTED BY: Ruthie
UPDATED: Sunday, July 20, 2003 16:18
VIEWED: 18048
PAGE 7 of 7
Hello Succatash,
I am a huge Sci Fi fan and have been since I started reading books at about age 14(I know.. I was a slow starter). Anyhows, 20 years on I have amassed a small library of Sci Fi.
Battlefield Earth was a great book which was done a grave injustice by film.
E.E. Doc Smiths books are all thoroughly enjoyable. Loved the Lensman series and the D'Alembert series.
For a bad ass story though I think back to a book called Cobra Strike. The book is about soldiers modified with high-tech gear like microbial organic alloys injected into their bones, combat microprocessors that evaluate circumstances and provide real-time solutions during combat. I cant remember it all but I remember it was an exciting read..
Any comments on my taste in books welcomed :)
Mal - "Jayne! Go play with your rainstick"
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LOL,
I just realised my previous posting has nothing to do with Robert.A.Heinlein.
Sorry about that.. I dont seem to be able to start a new thread for some reason..
I have read and enjoyed some of Heinleins work "Have space suit will travel", "rocketship Galileo" and a few others I cant remember..
I can see a definite similarity between Heinleins and Whedons styles. Great minds think alike i'd say.
Jayne - "I like smackin'em"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
Battlefield Earth was a great book which was done a grave injustice by film.
I'm all for people having their own opinions, and when I'm nasty about a book, I am in no way aiming nasty remarks at the people who like it...
But Battlefield Earth left scars on my psyche. Bought it on a recommendation. Read it all (to this day, I couldn't tell you why). Inscribed the cover with the words "This is the single worst book I have ever read". Gave it away.
Oh - and that opinion was formed long before I knew anything about the author. 'Nuff said on that issue.
Quote:
E.E. Doc Smiths books are all thoroughly enjoyable. Loved the Lensman series and the D'Alembert series.
Lensman - these fired my imagination nicely when I was 12 - haven't reread them since though.
Heinlein - now there's a mixed bag.
As has been said earlier in the thread, he wrote some read drivel. And some stunning books. Moon is a Harsh Mistress is still a favourite, as is Starship Troopers. He did have a tendency to get overlong and rambling though - and a lot of times when the dialogue descended to the puerile. On the feminist side, in some books, the equality issue is very nicely handled, while in others, it's completely overdone - like someone desperately overcompensating for something. So having a female mechanic on a ship would, in most Heinlein novels, have been accompanied by an endless justification of the fact.
I can't really see why you'd think Firefly derives any more from his work than from other science fiction pieces. To be honest, I'd most liken it to some of CJ Cherryh's works (the Downbelow Universe) - books like Merchanters Luck & Rimrunners. Well worth getting into for them as doesn't know 'em. I think it takes its influences from pretty much all over though.
Stray
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Also, I can kill you with my brain.
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Battlefield Earth remains a favourite book of mine and of all my book reading friends. Yes, yes the author is a complete nutcase.... but you have to get over that and read the book for what it is.. A damn good read!
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.(True Sci fi fans should read it and judge for themselves)
Is your comment about the Lensman firing your imagination when you were 12 an attempted put down or comment to be taken at face value? The writing style is a tad strange but I believe it was the style of the times(50's I think).
Mal - "My days of not takin you seriously are certainly coming to a middle"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
Battlefield Earth remains a favourite book of mine and of all my book reading friends. Yes, yes the author is a complete nutcase.... but you have to get over that and read the book for what it is.. A damn good read!
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.(True Sci fi fans should read it and judge for themselves)
Like I said - I read the book knowing nothing about the author. My opinions on the book and my opinions on Hubbard are unrelated.
I think he mentioned in the foreword of the copy I had that unusually for him, he didn't plan the book in advance, but simply made the story up as he went along. I feel that explains a lot. But not everything.
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Is your comment about the Lensman firing your imagination when you were 12 an attempted put down or comment to be taken at face value? The writing style is a tad strange but I believe it was the style of the times(50's I think).
Face value, and yes, I think it was very much a style of the time.
Stray
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Hey! Free soup!
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Stray:
As far as the Downbelow Station connection:
I thought the parallels were striking. It's a story of a war between the Outworlders and the original inner worlds. There is SOME technology beyond FF (human cloning, human rejuvenation) but it's not a technology-based story. Oddly, it was the outerworlders that were called "the Alliance", and it was the outerworlders who won the war.
Where FF exceeds Downbelow is HUMOR. CJ Cheryh's stories tend to be unremittingly harsh, the protagonists being ground up by political, economic, and personal forces so much larger than they. Sheer survival to the end of the story is counted as a victory.
But the one thing that I liked in Downbelow more than FF is that the FF bad guys have a tendency to look like "Road Warrior" cartoon characters. So far, only the FF "good guys" have been developed as complex humans. In Downbelow, EVERYONE has a life-story.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:Quote:Well, I suppose I could use Robert Jordan for example. His main characters are all horny, but all they do is blush and act childish.
Originally posted by Lunatikat:
Succatash,
Unsure of what you mean by "doesn't hold back".
George R. R. Martin, on the other hand, writes with big brass balls. When it's time for a sex scene or a violent scene, he does it right. He doesn't make me feel like I'm reading something censored.
I've just about run out of steam in the Fantasy genre. I've read everything, and I'm starting to weary of it. Stuff I loved as a young teen just isn't doing it for me anymore. I was extremely frustrated until I found George R.R. Martin, and now I'm frustrated again because he's taking a REALLY long time on Book 4.
I really liked Stephen Donaldson's "The Real Story" because, unlike Thomas Covenant, the Real Story is bad ass and doesn't hold back. Very violent and uncensored-feeling. Great Sci Fi in my opinion.
Thanks for your response.
- Succatash
Dear Succatash,
Have you gotten around to reading any Heinlein yet? I'd love to hear your response to him. Thinking more about your desire to find an author that doesn't hold back, I realize that I completely forgot to recommend Steve Perry's Matador series (The Man Who Never Missed, Matadora, The Albino Knife, Black Steel). Fast reads all, takes you right there with the sex while never neglecting the subject of love, fun martial arts stuff (for me, not a martial kind of gal, not athletic that is- might not satisfy a true martial artist, I dunno). Not a lot of sex scenes, but no wimping out when there is one. Jean Auel also doesn't shy away from the wet stuff (if you're into prehistoric fiction), but though I love her Earth's Children series, it is very repetitive (a flaw common to many multi-book series) and generally her sex sensibility is Hyper- Romance Novel. It is graphic, but very TrooLuv oriented.
On another subject, loved your pics, wish I could hear your band. Stay shiny.
Lunatikat- No power in the 'verse can stop me for more than an hour or so depending on the weather of course and if there's chocolate cake involved or lizards or something like that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
As far as the Downbelow Station connection:
I thought the parallels were striking. It's a story of a war between the Outworlders and the original inner worlds. There is SOME technology beyond FF (human cloning, human rejuvenation) but it's not a technology-based story. Oddly, it was the outerworlders that were called "the Alliance", and it was the outerworlders who won the war.
Small point of order - insofar as anyone seemed to actually win, I'd say that dubious honour went to Union. The Alliance emerged, and in Downbelow Station the Alliance are the closest you get to the good guys. In later books, the perception of them is closer to 'yet another government' - nicely done.
And while Earth weren't even remotely victors, the ones who lost the most comprehensively were the Fleet - the ones doing the fighting. CLOSE parallell to FF there. She doesn't usually write about the movers and shakers. She writes about the little folk, and their perspective on major events that they get caught up in.
Quote:
Where FF exceeds Downbelow is HUMOR. CJ Cheryh's stories tend to be unremittingly harsh, the protagonists being ground up by political, economic, and personal forces so much larger than they. Sheer survival to the end of the story is counted as a victory.
Aye - couldn't agree more about that. There's very rarely any humour in Cherryh's novels. OTOH, I think the 'sheer survival' part is a touch exaggerated. She normally leaves her main characters in better situations than they started in. An exception to that could be the Heavy Time/Hellburner books, where the characters look pretty secure at the end, but Cherryh fans know fine well they're about to be on the losing side of a war...
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But the one thing that I liked in Downbelow more than FF is that the FF bad guys have a tendency to look like "Road Warrior" cartoon characters. So far, only the FF "good guys" have been developed as complex humans. In Downbelow, EVERYONE has a life-story.
Have you read many of her others? The Foreigner & Chanur series in particular rank among my all-time favourite SF novels.
Stray
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Hey! Free soup!
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Maybe it was bc I saw Star Wars b4 reading the Chanur series, or maybe it was the cover art, but I kept thinking.... "Sounds like a Wookie to me!" 
Mea culpa on the exaggeration, you're right. Her main characters usually do end up in a better situation at the end, but it seems like they spend all of their time just surviving! (Very little heroics as I recall)
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