The Firefly/Serenity Solar System
POSTED BY: FraserBW
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 7, 2006 10:55
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PAGE 10 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by TenthCrewMember:Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:Quote:
Originally posted by aahhaaa:
Occam's Razor- one simple answer for all the observetd phenomena...
It was all a dream.
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the incorrect one.
For example I was once on a Robotics team, and there we made a robot (go figure) like any good robot it could go forward and back, turn, stack boxes, operate without an operator for short periods provided a preprogrammed function was selected, push several times its weight, and attach itself to a surface with industrial strength suction cups so nothing could move it. Such is the life of a robot.
Anyone observing this robot who believed in Occam’s Razor would immediately be forced to assume that it was a thinking being. All of the things it did could be perfectly explained by the Robot thinking, and (by the same argument that rules out an immaterial soul) one would reject (via the Razor) the absurd idea that somewhere, unknown and unseen, was a human operator.
It does not change the fact that there was a human operator. It is just that a human operator need not be introduced into the picture to explain the phenomenon, but one does need to be introduced to create the phenomenon.
Best. Explaination. Ever.
So... both you guys are in the Intelligent Design camp? This is exactly their argument.
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Quote:
Originally posted by aahhaaa:Quote:
Originally posted by TenthCrewMember:
Best. Explaination. Ever.
So... both you guys are in the Intelligent Design camp? This is exactly their argument.
Now don't go putting words into my mouth, I may just spit them out on you.
Merely an observation that it was a great explaination for the point of view, is all.To be honest, I neither agree nor do I disagree with ID, but that is a blackhole of another color.
BWAH!
TCM
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Fletch2 kind of summed it up for me. I enjoyed the original Star Trek, but I rapidly got tired of TNG. Everything in the ST world to me was way too neat and tidy. Handheld machines that heal broken bones by just holding the device over them.
Crime eliminated, disease eliminated.
Babylon 5 was the first one I remember where man's problems (unemployment, addiction, illness, etc) followed them into space. B5 was much better to me than any of the subsequent ST programs. I'd rate B5 as my 2nd favorite space opera behind Firefly.
I watched the first couple of episodes of ST Voyager and never went back to it. Same with Enterprise, although I thought it was the 2nd best one behind the original.
Firefly also depicts a future where our problems will follow us into space. I don't think our world will ever eliminate these types of problems, no matter how we try.
But I'm digressing from the topic, which is the Firefly universe. I'm guessing if there are more tales, a decent portion of the Reavers will have survived the battle with the Alliance in the film.
I don't think of myself as a lion....
Does that seem right to you?
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Quote:
Originally posted by aahhaaa:
So... both you guys are in the Intelligent Design camp? This is exactly their argument.
Hell no, no god as incompetent as the Intelligent Designers claim is worthy of recognition.
I'm not arguing for anything there. I certainly don't side with Intelligent Design, if there is a god I have a feeling he she it (or they) is far more intellegent than that.
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going back to the robot thing, you guys might be interested in the AI here:
http://www.alicebot.org/
(they offer a free download that you can program too)
Playing with it, after a few responses, you start to get a sense and then a certainty you are dealing with something that is programmed. Then you start asking it 'trick' questions to expose its nature.
Something similar with the robot example & Occam's Razor- simplest answer that covers ALL the observed phenomena. Give the observers a little more time, and they will notice repetitive behavior or something that will tip them off. (But then, I had this girlfriend; talk about compulsive behavior...hmmm)
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By the way, here is Joss' official description of the Verse's history from The Official Visual Companion.
A Brief History of the Universe
circa 2507 A.D.
by Joss Whedon
"Earth-That-Was couldn't handle the growing population and resource needs of humankind. Amazingly enough, instead of wiping itself out, the human race rose to the challenge of finding a new home for the species. A nearby star was located, home to dozens of planets and hundreds of moons, almost all of which had enough mass and solidity to be templates for new earths. Through giant atmosphere processing plants, terraforming technologies, gravity regulation and the introduction of every known form of Earthlife, each planet became its own little (or in some cases, huge) Earth. Every person willing and able to leave the Earth migrated to the new system. An entire generation never even saw the outside of a spaceship, the journey took so long. But the planets were ready for habitation (despite the odd quirk of nature or miscalculation on a few) and civilization as we knew it began to rebuild. The work started on the two largest, most central planets, SIHNON and LONDINIUM.
"On Earth-That-Was, the two ruling powers were once known as America and China. Though their empires remained separate, the two powers worked together throughout the colonization process, their cultures - as so many had - melding at many levels. Londinium, called so after the Roman name for England's capital (a country long before annexed by America in a somewhat ironic reversal), represented what was once the American Empire. Sinon ('SEE-non,' a bastardization of Sino, our word for 'Chinese') was the new China, basically. These two powers, still working in harmony, grew at once into the most populous and advanced civilizations in the new galaxy.
"'Advanced' meant just that: these were enlightened cultures, with respect for all non-aggressive religious beliefs (though the main religion on both was Buddhism). Literacy levels were at 94%. Average lifespan was 120. Public Service was not law - it was simply an ingrained part of the people's ethos. And pot was totally legal (though I probably won't stress that). (In fact, forget I said it.) The point is, certain social mores had evolved (whether forwards or backwards is a matter of opinion) beyond our modern conceptions. As, for example, sex. Prostitution as we understand it had long since been abolished by the legalization and strict federal regulation of the sex trade. 'Companion' houses were set up throughout the central planets. No house could ever be run by a man. No Companion could ever be coerced into accepting a client. Companions trained in all the arts, extremely well schooled. They lived not unlike Nuns, worked not unlike Geishas, and often rose to political or social prominence when they retired.
"Such was life on the central planets: among them Sihnon, Londinium, and Osiris (where Simon and River Tam grew up). On the outer planets, things were a mite different.
"The thing is, we had enough worlds to go around, but not enough resources. And people didn't exactly stop making babies. The outer planets, the worlds and moons that hadn't been chosen to house the new civilization - they were the destination for the poorer, more extreme, the pioneers. They traveled out to the nearest planet someone hadn't claimed yet and started turning their rockets into roofs. Building off whatever the land had been shaped to provide them with. Some of these people were brought near to savagery by the conditions they encountered. Some were just hard-working, independent folk who didn't want their lives mapped out for them before they'd lived them. Didn't want convenience. Some were orthodox in their beliefs to the point where they were not comfortable among non-believers, and wanted whole worlds where they would not be slowly homogenized into society. And some had reason to avoid the law.
"There were troubles. There were famines, there were wars - the human race didn't get better or smarter just 'cause they had made sc
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Here is my own version of the first two paragraphs (broken into four paragraphs). Scientifically it makes more sense, and gives more detail to the terraforming process.
A Brief History of the Universe
circa 2517 A.D.
After a serious of devastating industrial accidents, the ecologically damaged Earth-That-Was couldn't handle the growing population and resource needs of humankind. Amazingly enough, instead of wiping itself out, the human race rose to the challenge of finding a new home for the species. An astronomic rarity was located: a stable multiple star system. Composed of three G2-class stars, this trinary system included four Earth-like planets orbiting each star and dozens of Mars-like planets along with several gas giants around each star, each with at least three dozen moons. All the Mars-like planets and almost all of the moons had enough mass and solidity to be templates for new Earths. Through giant atmosphere processing plants, terraforming technologies, a network of gravity-regulation satellites and the introduction of every known form of Earth life, each planet and moon could become its own little (or in some cases, huge) Earth.
Every person willing and able to leave the Earth migrated to the new system. An entire generation never even saw the outside of a spaceship, the journey took so long. But these new worlds were ready for habitation (despite the odd quirk of nature or miscalculation on a few) and civilization as we knew it began to rebuild.
Terraforming of the dozens of planets and hundreds of moons in the trinary system involved employing a special greenhouse gas that traps the heat in a planet or moon's atmosphere making the place warm enough to sustain life even at far distances from a star. That was combined with the gravity-regulation satellites, genetically engineered plants and algae, soil, and water, plus the giant atmosphere processing plants along with gigantic orbital mirrors for extra heat and light. The orbital mirrors were used to focus light on each moon or planet, thus little problem with sunlight and distance. While terraforming made those planets and moons outside of the natural habitable zone very similar to Earth, they would never be as lush or comfortable as the so-called "central planets" on account of being so far away from the suns.
The work of terraforming had started on the two largest, most central planets, Sihnon and Londinium. On Earth-That-Was, the two ruling powers were once known as America and China. Though their empires remained separate, the two powers worked together throughout the colonization process, their cultures - as so many had - melding at many levels. Londinium, called so after the Roman name for England's capital (a country long before annexed by America in a somewhat ironic reversal), represented what was once the American Empire. Sinon ('SEE-non,' a bastardization of Sino, our word for 'Chinese') was the new China, basically. These two powers, still working in harmony, grew at once into the most populous and advanced societies in the new civilization.
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
Scientifically it makes more sense, and gives more detail to the terraforming process.
It certainly does. Well done CrevanReaver. As much as I respect Joss, I just wish he had done a little research to explain the Fireflyverse.
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In the case of Jupiters inner moons, especially Io and Europa, their heat is largely a product of the proximity to a massive gas giant. Jupiter exerts enormous tidal currents on the surface and core of these moons. In Europas case it causes the seas to surge and ice to break and reform. On Io it bends and buckles the surface and stimulates geothermal activity.
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Quote:
Originally posted by guntermarx:
In the case of Jupiters inner moons, especially Io and Europa, their heat is largely a product of the proximity to a massive gas giant. Jupiter exerts enormous tidal currents on the surface and core of these moons. In Europas case it causes the seas to surge and ice to break and reform. On Io it bends and buckles the surface and stimulates geothermal activity.
I'm a complete novice when it comes to astronomy, but I find this real interesting.
Is the heat generated that way pretty stable? Or can the temperatures vary widely, maybe due to a variable gravitational pull that Jupiter has on its moons? Just curious. KF
~KF
Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.
~Haven Prayer
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