The Firefly/Serenity Solar System

POSTED BY: FraserBW
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 7, 2006 10:55
VIEWED: 27197
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FLETCH2

Sunday, January 1, 2006 12:34 AM

Niven isn't a "hard science" guy but he does pay more attention than most to the consequences of his writen environment. There was a short rider in the 2nd Ringworld book that explained some conceptual errors made in the first book that invalidated the Ringworld idea. Fixing those problems actually gave him a reason to write the second book.

The single solar system model doesn't work, because no matter how much you mess with the atmosphere of a moon you can't do anything if it doesnt receive enough solar energy. All exotic gas atmspheres can do is tinker with things like the greenhouse effect they can't manufacture energy that isn't there. A planet in Pluto's orbit will be dark and cold no matter what you do short of importing your own mini star.

Fact is that Joss doesn't write SciFi he writes people stories. We have scripts he authored with 1 solar system, we have others with multiple systems, we have instantaneous coms and we have delayed coms and the thing that makes the difference is what is needed for the story. If Joss needs the ship to run on exotic antimater one week and the next he tanks her up on water that's just the nature of the story he's telling. Reality is mutable to that tale not the other way around.

Only fanboys worry about making sense of this stuff. Relax.

CITIZEN

Sunday, January 1, 2006 1:05 AM

AAHHAAA:
My explination of gravity in the 'verse (as well as a few other scientific technical problems) can be found here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=16026#224033

Fletch2:
I believe a member by the name of KayleeRulesAll has done math that proves that the system in Firefly *could* exist. In other words 70+ planets and moons could exist within the habitable zone of our own system. Now assuming that the firefly star is larger and hotter, and that terraforming has extended the habitable zone further, there's actually a fair bit of room to play with.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
Remember, the ice caps aren't melting, the water is being liberated.

AAHHAAA

Sunday, January 1, 2006 2:56 PM

new year's greets, guys!

Fletch- I totally agree the storyline is the thing; and consistency is only important so the audience doesn't drop out of the story.
That just happened to me while viewing an excellent Dr.Who episode set during the London Blitz- they were using a reel-to-reel tape machine, which didn't exist then. Not a biggie, but suddenly I was thinking about wire recorders, not the story being told.

Disagree with your solar energy argument tho... Way back in the '50s 'Commando Cody' (TV series- flew a ship much like Flash Gordons) came up with a lo-tech answer- orbit mirrors in close to the star and 'aim' the super-intense light at your planet of choice. The inverse square law doesn't apply to a focused beam; the torch/flashlight is a good example. This of course would introduce its own complications- I still prefer the gravity lens, which we even know exists in nature.

cit- thanks for the links- as ol' Spock might say, fascinating!:]

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Sunday, January 1, 2006 4:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
The single solar system model doesn't work, because no matter how much you mess with the atmosphere of a moon you can't do anything if it doesnt receive enough solar energy. All exotic gas atmspheres can do is tinker with things like the greenhouse effect they can't manufacture energy that isn't there. A planet in Pluto's orbit will be dark and cold no matter what you do short of importing your own mini star.

I actually share your skepticism, but it should be pointed out that planets can and do generate their own heat. This is particularly true of the moons of very dense gas giants. The Galilean moons of Jupiter all generate their won heat. One of them, Io, generates so much heat that its surface remains a scared by constant volcanism.

The Firefly universe assumes that there exists a single A, F or G type star with 20 or so gas giants orbiting relatively closely within the habitable zone and that there are some 70 earth sized moons, all of which are relatively stable.

Possible? Maybe. We must assume that gas giants can even form that close to a star, and that many gas giants could form that close together, and that the gravitation pressures caused by that many gas giants in relatively close orbit would be stable. . . . It is not just a matter of figuring out the orbits. I personally question the possibility and necessity.

Likely? Well, assuming the above, I’ll say this: it is possible that I could drop a box of scrabble and the blocks could fall in such a way as to form Hamlet's Soliloquy (“To be or not be…all my sins remmeber’d”) assuming enough bocks. What is the likelihood of that happening? I don’t know, probably pretty small, but it is really just a matter of how many times I do it, and there are a lot of stars out there. So the likelihood of Joss’ ‘verse is just dependent on the number of stars sampled, assuming it is possible to begin with (i.e. the volume of space in question, or the radius of maximum flight from the earth). We can assume that this is probably not large, relatively speaking. There probably is not enough single A, F, or G type stars within relatively close proximity to earth to make it very probable.

I do agree that the storyline is what is important, but I think plausibility is still very important. If your story is based on laughable premises, the storyline will get lost. There are movies out there that are comedic purely because of the seriousness with which the story intends to evoke purely implausible scenarios, particularly sci-fi and fantasy. Particularly when dealing with fantasy and science fiction, more so then with other types of fiction, the plausibility of the setting is also important to the story. I think Firefly works, and I don’t think people will be that upset about the number of moons, but no story is completely independent of the setting.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

CITIZEN

Sunday, January 1, 2006 4:12 PM

The universe is infinite, so anything that is possible is probable

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
Remember, the ice caps aren't melting, the water is being liberated.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Sunday, January 1, 2006 4:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
The universe is infinite, so anything that is possible is probable

There is an axiom of physics that says that anything not expressly forbidden by the laws of physics will eventually happen (unless the universe ends first.)

That however does not mean that it will happen during the breif blink of human existence.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, January 1, 2006 4:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by aahhaaa:
Chris- don't quite get your point here...

I didn't actually have a point.

FLETCH2

Sunday, January 1, 2006 6:56 PM

Tape recorders were invented before WW2, though the one you are talking about looks like a Vortexion WVA studio model. If so it's probably ten years too early since the Ferrograph company didn't start making the tape deck used in the Vortexion until 1948.

FLETCH2

Sunday, January 1, 2006 7:55 PM

I think the 'Verse works because you are not encouraged to look at it too closely. Joss doesn't write SciFi, he doesn't know what's "right" or what's "wrong" he's just makes things up to satisfy the needs of his story. So some things, like what the ship uses for fuel and how they work are just glossed over. Other things like all the planets having a sun the same size, the same weather are due to the need to do stories with a "western" feel and about the kinds of locations they have. Other things, like gravity working when the main power is off is a filming constraint.

Had we been 2 series in with 50 episodes or so filmed I'm thinking this would have become a problem with those of us geeky enough to care. Joss did the Buffyverse where everything is done with "magic" and consequently everything is allowed. Writing SciFi requires more discipline, something I'm not sure Joss has, I'm pretty certain that if he had a great plot that only worked if Serenity can run on chopped liver he would use it and not worry if it contradicted everything else previously established.

A final thought. Twenty years ago Asimov leveled similar criticism on Space:1999 which like Firefly is really a fantasy series set in space. The science just doesn't work in either show but that shouldn't stop us from enjoying it.

RODWY

Sunday, January 1, 2006 8:29 PM

So we get from the movie 20 planets, but in the series they said there's 70 or so "earths." on these planets and moons. And ass you can see in some episodes you can see a planet in the sky above a moon with another moon in close orbit. So the alliance has all of the planets closer to the center while the rest get the outer planets. Which makes more sense because it takes days or weeks to get from moon to moon. But the firefly moves slower than the speed of light lets say 3,000 km/s it would still take like months to get from an inner planet to an outer planet.

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Mal: Define Interesting
Wash: Oh god, We're all gonna die?

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