Reavers and Buddhism
POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 19:41
VIEWED: 3387
PAGE 2 of 2
The reason I asked was that I was tired at the time and unable to think of a single example of Buddhism being seriously twisted in all of the years since its inception. In my drowsiness I managed to forget about the entire nation of Japan.
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The rest is of academic concern only.
Governments do not exist in isolation, they are made of people (unless someone put lizards in charge with out telling me) and those people were raised somewhere with some values or other pushed upon them.
The US government has always been and probably will always function as a fractured multi-ideology congregation (not in the religious sense) of various Christians. If it were run by Hindus there is a very good chance things would have come out differently even with the prohibition against the establishment of a religion.
Of course the US government and the people running it are perhaps the worst examples of Christian values thrown into play that I have ever seen, but that is nothing new. Christianity has been exploited for various reasons for almost as long as it has existed.
I mean where have you seen more self proclaimed Christians saying something like, "Jesus was an asshole and what he said in Mark 10:21 was pure commie bull, same with Mark 12:43-44" than when it comes time to figure out taxes? I admit they don’t use those words.
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Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
The US government has always been and probably will always function as a fractured multi-ideology congregation (not in the religious sense) of various Christians.
Not sure I can agree with you on this point. The trouble, of course, is the difficulty of pinning down the essential nature of Christianity. Self-profession can't be it, any more than my saying, "I'm Welsh" makes it so--there are ways of determining whether or not it is the case, my own profession notwithstanding. As my understanding of my own faith has matured over the years, I've come to realize that the most reliable indicator of Christianity is the life truly lived in imitation of Christ. This will be marked by compassion, generosity, self-sacrifice (though not to the same degree, hopefully), and above all, love. So when someone claims Christianity, one does well to examine that person's lifestyle. That being the case, it can hardly be said that the people running this country (or even the average citizens for that matter) are Christians.
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Of course the US government and the people running it are perhaps the worst examples of Christian values thrown into play that I have ever seen, but that is nothing new.
Where is the generosity of a government that in 1999 passed a bill in which gave the richest 20% of Americans a total of 79% of the tax savings? Where is the compassion of a government that turns a blind eye to American corporations that pay workers in foreign plants less than subsistence wages? And let's not even begin on the subject of war. Our goverment, in short, is hardly what one would call Christian. If they adopt the trappings of Christianity via self-profession, that reflects negatively on them, not on a religion that champions service to the poor and downtrodden, a religion of non-violence, and love of neighbor. It is a sad commentary on the politicians, but not the faith itself.
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Christianity has been exploited for various reasons for almost as long as it has existed.
Beginning with Constantine and running right up to the present day, Christianity has been exploited for economic and political power. But this is no different than, say, Islam. The Sauds (the ruling family of Saudi Arabia) are hardly good Muslims, yet they use Islam to unite and control Saudi Arabia. Arafat, Bin Ladin, and Zarqawi aren't the most pious Muslims either--they're simply using it as a carrot-stick combo to further their own ends. Such is also the case with Christianity. Who'd dare to call Pat Robertson a shining example of faith in Jesus? Yet there he is, growing richer and richer. One can hardly call the crusades a model of Christian love; such a bloodbath. My frustration (and please understand, I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of this--I'm just venting) is that while people can accept that Bin Ladin doesn't represent true Islam, they think that Robertson represents true Christianity. So my faith takes on a foul reek, and is subsequently mocked or even outright persecuted on the basis of a handful of perverse men who manipulate a beautiful faith for their own purposes.
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Rant over.
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Now would probably be a good time to point out that I have nothing against Christianity or the US government, I do however have some problems with members of both groups, some self proclaimed and others elected.
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In my mind most people who claim to be Christians are not, but I've given up on convincing others to look at it that way. Since I'm hardly devout myself it's really not my place anyway.
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Well, there seems to be some confusion about what actually makes you a Christian. I was once told, "I'm a Christian"; I said, "Really? How do you know?". The reply: "Well, my parents are Christians." Apparently it's genetic? I don't know.
Sorry about the tirade; I could tell by your posts that you don't have anything against Christians; it's just that the door was open, and I couldn't stop myself from walking through it.
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I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Sorry about the tirade … it's just that the door was open, and I couldn't stop myself from walking through it.
I know the feeling (impulse.)
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Well, there seems to be some confusion about what actually makes you a Christian. I was once told, "I'm a Christian"; I said, "Really? How do you know?". The reply: "Well, my parents are Christians." Apparently it's genetic? I don't know.
The genetics of religion I don't get. If your parents are Christians, specifically if your mother is Christian, and that is your only connection to religion wouldn't that make you ... Jewish?
I mean to be a Christian you need to be baptized, or born again, or converted, or ... something. You need some conscious acceptance of Christianity. To be a Jew you need heritage, as it has been explained to me. So since Jesus was a Rabbi and Christianity is by definition a sect of Judaism that means that the person who told you that had Jewish parents (in an odd roundabout sort of a way) and as that person's religion was based on heritage not any conscious acceptance of Christianity that person must be Jewish.
Or some such, it makes no sense.
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Jesus talked down genetics in a passage I came across when looking for the money bits. Mark 3:31-35
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In every forum I visit, seriously. Why do I always have to answer to this argument?
Religion is community. A religion is a group of people who more or less agree that they believe in a similiar philosophy. As signs of being members of this society, they start traditions and rites and holidays that set them apart from everyone else in more ways than just philosophy. Some sects of Christianity baptize their followers, many Jews observe Kashrut (keeping Kosher), and during Ramadan, Muslims fast during the day. These observances and differences in belief are all that seperate religions.
Now, when you are born, your philosphical slate is blank. You probably haven't thought about what happens when you die. Your parents, who usually want you to live a decent life, and think that their life has been decent, teach you the moral and physical aspects of their religion (including atheism. Atheists have morals). Therfore, most religions assume that as a child of a member of their faiths can be a part of them with little or no ritual required to do so. A person who was not born under a particular faith, though, who wishes to join that faith, usually must undergo a conversion ritual that is meant to do what parents would have done to the convertee had he been raised by religious folk.
It isn't genetics that decide religion, it's how who are assumed to have been brought up.
Oh, and Christianity split from Judaism pretty early on. Despite similiar mythos, philosophies and rituals, and despite sharing lineages, they are seperate religions, because that is how they identify themselves.
For the reader's information, I'm Jewish. Have a happy holiday season, and try not to shoot your relatives.
Ben, from Austin
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Quote:
Originally posted by barnaby36:
In every forum I visit, seriously. Why do I always have to answer to this argument?
Ben I think you missed the point, we were not arguing for what you are refuting. We were both, in or own ways, pointing out the absurdity of it.
Neither of us believe that genetics decide religion, but we have both encountered people who do. They believe that they are what their parents are simply by virtue of their parents being that.
Were that the case I would be half Catholic half northern Evangelical because of my grandparents, never mind that I attend neither church (except for funerals and once to administer All Souls Day prayers for a very devout very dead believer.)
Some people say, "I'm Catholic/Lutheran/Anglican/Baptist/Evangelical/Eastern-Orthodox/just-plain-Christian because my parents were/are," when they don't even know what that group believes.
I think even the way you look at it this isn’t true because they are not actually part of that group and they do not hold that similar philosophy.
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