What might have helped Firefly? (Hindsight is 20/20)

POSTED BY: JavidRho
UPDATED: Friday, July 11, 2003 16:37
VIEWED: 6312
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TRAGICSTORY

Wednesday, July 9, 2003 4:03 PM

Honestly, I don't see a mini series as the answer. Mostly because if you miss 1 or 2 episodes you really get lost (ie. like in 24) The ABSOLUTE BEST way to have done it would be BIG SCREEN movie --> Movie shown on TV --->2 hour pilot---> Season 1 and so on. (Of course I am following the timeline of M*A*S*H* and to a certain extent Band of Brothers.

I think this system works because A. there is alot of advertising in movies. B. Word of mouth is one of the best promoters of movies. C. Movies are shown numerous times a day every day so find a timeslot that would fit your schedule would be easy. Once people see the movie, they will be hooked, see it when it comes on TV, see the pilot and see the season.

TRUST FUX TO GET IT BACK ASSWARD!

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"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

JAVIDRHO

Wednesday, July 9, 2003 5:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:
Honestly, I don't see a mini series as the answer. Mostly because if you miss 1 or 2 episodes you really get lost (ie. like in 24) The ABSOLUTE BEST way to have done it would be BIG SCREEN movie --> Movie shown on TV --->2 hour pilot---> Season 1 and so on. (Of course I am following the timeline of M*A*S*H* and to a certain extent Band of Brothers.

I would completely agree with your statements if we were talking about any other show. Maybe it is just me, but I wasn't that impressed the first time I saw Firefly. It was something that slowly grew on me, over the course of several episodes, and only now that I have been able to download all of the episodes and watch them repeatedly, only now do I have an overwhelming love for the show. So, to me, a 2-hour movie would not have hooked me enough to demand that it return.

Then again, maybe if I had seen the REAL pilot, Serenity, instead of Train Job, maybe I would have been hooked from the beginning. Maybe that would have helped others as well. Maybe that was the real tragedy...

DRAKON

Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:23 AM

The biggest problem I think with Firefly was the cost. Science fiction is expensive, compared to other genrie because every bloody little thing in your world has to be designed and built. You can't just swing by Walmart to pick up a set of salt shakers. They have to be futuristic.

Firefly did a pretty good job, with a lot of low tech stuff and burrowing from western era. But the ships, the guns, all of that has to be designed and built. And that is expensive. Hence the high price tag per episode.

Short of going to a Doctor Who budget, the cost for initially constructing the sets and buying the props has to come from somewhere. A movie or miniseries might provide the initial starting capital to cover most of those needs.

With lower production costs, the ratings become less of an issue. Not unimportant, but a low rated inexpensive show has a better chance of survival than an expensive show that not enough people are watching.

"my kind of stupid."

JAVIDRHO

Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
The biggest problem I think with Firefly was the cost. Science fiction is expensive, compared to other genrie because every bloody little thing in your world has to be designed and built. You can't just swing by Walmart to pick up a set of salt shakers. They have to be futuristic.

I agree with Drakon completely. If you think about it, the only science fiction shows that have lasted on TV, are ones where they can keep the cost down while keeping the quality high. StarGate-SG1 is a perfect example. They only travel to other Earth-like planets (which all happen to look like British Columbia, Canada, where it is filmed), the only real prop (beside the home base) that they had to build is one StarGate - which they just place on each new "planet" of the week.

If you want a space-based show, you can't get away with cheap special effects these days. People expect things to look real and believable. Unfortunately, this means that maybe space-based shows will never make it on TV, even cable. They are just too expensive for the limited audience that science fiction attracts.

I personally like the fact that Firefly "wasn't for everyone." Shows that are so middle-of-the-frigging-road, so as to attract the largest audience, usually bore me to tears. So, where does that leave those who want this type of programming? Direct-to-DVD (as has been suggested here before), or my choice, we replace network TV with Pay-per-view TV. You want it, you pay for it. If the audience is small, and/or if the show costs more than average, then you pay more. This gets rid of commercials, and the ratings wars they create, completely. Simple and sweet...

DRAKON

Friday, July 11, 2003 6:47 AM

One added comment. The advent of computer graphics have lowered the cost of science fiction special effects incredably. It still takes talented technicians and artists, but the tools available to those artists are coming down in price. Which is one reason we have seen so many science fiction shows lately (Stargate, Space Above and Beyond, Farscape, Babylon 5, not counting the various incarnations of Trek.)

As costs come down, we should see more such shows.

I wish Firefly was for everyone. Not dumbed down to appeal to the lowest common demoninator, but I wish more people were as fanatic about Firefly, saw and liked the show as much as I did. Part of this is that a larger audience base would have kept the show on the air, and part of this is not liking feeling so diconnected from the rest of the world. Custer still means something to me.

"My kind of stupid"

JUTIN

Friday, July 11, 2003 9:27 AM

I agree that the cost had to have been an issue, but why produce three episodes and not air them... that's wasted money. I think everyone that comes to this wonderful site agrees that FOX is made up of morons. I believe that the biggest and only problem with Firefly was that it was ahead of it's time. I've been watching TV long enough to come to the conclusion that everything successful is a retooling of some older televsion show. Most viewers want remakes of The Dating Game or Star Search or Happy Days or The Twilight Zone... what is Firefly? It's original... it's not Star Trek, it's not Bonanza. I'm willing to say that it's not a mix of either. I always thought that it had similarities to Star Wars... but that couldn't be more farther from the truth. The main thing that could've helped Firefly was more advertising, airing in their real order, talk show appearances (as not to just meet the actors but to give people glances at entire scenes). I love Firefly and I talked about it's originality endlessly while it was still on air and have talked about it even more once it got cancelled and I'm talking about nothing else than Firefly since I found out that there will be a film made. Hopefully, if we all keep telling everyone we know about the show and getting them into watching a few episodes, the DVD sales will be big (and also DVD rentals, don't forget), hopefully the US Sci-Fi channel will pick up the episodes, and we can all create such a big buzz about the impending film and that we can all see sequels come our way too.

DRAKON

Friday, July 11, 2003 10:55 AM

"why produce three episodes and not air them"

The answer to this, besides the obvious that Fox's upper management is populated by morons, is simple economics. The trouble is that simple economics ain't

In simplistic terms, ratings = money. The difference between cost of producing an episode and how much advertising revenue the network gets from the time slot is the profits. An expensive show, with low ratings does not generate enough profit to make it viable. So you switch to a cheaper show, that is possibly more popular, to garner higher profits from the time slot. Even if that means not airing episodes and eating those productions costs, the overall effect of higher profits on the new show can offset that loss.

Also, by not airing the episodes, you increase the (perceived) value of the DVD box set, thereby increasing the price you can charge and make higher profits that way. To overcome the original outlay in production costs.

Never ask me a rhetorical question. I can bore the ears off a gnat at 500 paces.

"My kind of stupid"

JAVIDRHO

Friday, July 11, 2003 11:02 AM

I've had this belief even before Firefly was yanked. Let's not blame FOX, per se, let's blame the whole gorram commercial TV system. The only way we, the people, will have any say in what is put, or kept, on the air, is if we pay for the shows we want. As I mentioned earlier, this would be direct to DVD shows, for now, but would have to evolve into pay-per-view TV - completely replacing so-called "free" commercial TV.

As long as networks rely on commercials to pay for their salaries and the stockholder's retirements, then of course they are going to go with shows that give them the most money per hour. That is simple economics. If you buy stocks, do you go with the companies who are doing great things, but loosing money? No. If you have money to give away, then you might help out those companies because you like what they do. You certainly don't invest in them if you really want to make money (this is unfortunate, but true). Network TV is a business, pure and simple.

Now, having said that, I do blame FOX, and several other networks, for this new trend of giving new shows only half a season (or less) to find an audience. Back when I was a youngun, networks always gave new shows at least a full season. It was during those long summers, we would wait to see if our favorite show was picked up for another season. Now, many shows are cancelled after only 3 or 4 episodes. If you look at the numbers, MOST new shows these days do not make it a full season. Survivors are rare.

Maybe that is the fault of the stockholders, no one wants to invest in the future anymore. No one wants to allow a show to find its place and grow. They all want big returns, and they want them NOW, or it's NO SOUP FOR YOU!

To sum up this long rant:
1) Commercial TV is the Alliance
2) Browncoats need to fight for a change
3) That change will help all shows, not just FF
4) I should never post right after drinking a large double-shot iced mocha...

TRAGICSTORY

Friday, July 11, 2003 4:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JavidRho:
Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:
Honestly, I don't see a mini series as the answer. Mostly because if you miss 1 or 2 episodes you really get lost (ie. like in 24) The ABSOLUTE BEST way to have done it would be BIG SCREEN movie --> Movie shown on TV --->2 hour pilot---> Season 1 and so on. (Of course I am following the timeline of M*A*S*H* and to a certain extent Band of Brothers.

I would completely agree with your statements if we were talking about any other show. Maybe it is just me, but I wasn't that impressed the first time I saw Firefly. It was something that slowly grew on me, over the course of several episodes, and only now that I have been able to download all of the episodes and watch them repeatedly, only now do I have an overwhelming love for the show. So, to me, a 2-hour movie would not have hooked me enough to demand that it return.

Then again, maybe if I had seen the REAL pilot, Serenity, instead of Train Job, maybe I would have been hooked from the beginning. Maybe that would have helped others as well. Maybe that was the real tragedy...

Thanks for agreeing with me but I have to point out that if you saw the Firefly movie (and it did not suck) then you would most likly check out the pilot and thus get the show started. I would just have to point out the number of times this formula has worked:

M*A*S*H*
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Stargate
Superman

Finally I could point out the number of movies we would like to see made into series.

(of course this debate is pointless because fox has already F**ked it up for us)
**Note to self: Finish TIME MACHINE and fix timeline**

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"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

JAVIDRHO

Friday, July 11, 2003 4:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:
Thanks for agreeing with me but I have to point out that if you saw the Firefly movie (and it did not suck) then you would most likly check out the pilot and thus get the show started.
...

I hope you (and others here) are correct, and that Firefly can return as a successful and long-lasting TV series after the movie comes out. Afterall, isn't that what we all want? Isn't that why we all spend so much time here, talking about this show?

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