Are You for Unification or Independence if You Lived in the FireFly 'Verse?

POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 3, 2006 05:00
VIEWED: 18917
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MEHTBI

Monday, December 12, 2005 8:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TraineeAlternate:
I can't help thinking about the American Civil War allegory going on in Firefly. I'll first have to figure that out- if it weren't for slavery, there wouldn't have been a war, and if there had been a war without, a massive number of Northerners like me would have protested, or even have supported the Confederacy. But since the cause of the war was rooted in a singular moral problem, I would have to support my home area, the North.

It's not my business. But,

"In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law -- a position that horrified African Americans and their white allies..."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h1549.html

sorry again, not my business...

(btw, in Russia, slavery was ended 19.2.1861. without any war. we had no slaves from Africa, our slaves were our own people - russians had russian slaves :))

ONLYFOOTPRINTS

Monday, December 12, 2005 9:08 PM

Independence.

MEHTBI

Monday, December 12, 2005 9:30 PM

As for me, the show atmosphere (with all respect to western fans and civil war critics) is about WWII - german helmets and nazi-like fashion of Alliance soldiers, experiments with mind control, torture under the cover of creating world for s.c. "better people" from one side...
and WWII-fashion american army helmets, ideas of freedom, saving escaped prisoners with the risk for their lives - from another.

a'm not an expert in american XIX century history, so i'll think of it WWII-like way :)))

(i still wonder... on what side russians fought [edited] - for Unification or Independence? :))

STAKETHELURK

Monday, December 12, 2005 9:31 PM

Quote:
The cause of the Civil War was not the issue of slavery.

The facts do not support this claim. Just look at the corellation between the number of slaves in a county and the percentage voting for seccession. In areas where large numbers of slaves were held, the voters overwhelming voted for seccession. In areas where there were few slaves, such as what would eventually become West Virginia, the vote was largely against seccession. And since the issue of slavery had been "bleeding" Kansas in the 1850s, (not to mention all those Compromises in the decades before) I think it is fallacious to assume that slavery was "created" as an issue during the war.

I'd like to add though, that the discussion of the issues of the Civil War, being so divise and contested, is better left to a thread in the RWED. We have it for a reason, after all. If folks want to start up a thread there to continue the discussion, great, but this thread is about the Pros and Cons of Unification. Let's try and stick to that, if we can.

MTNSCOTT

Monday, December 12, 2005 9:39 PM

Silly question... People w/o power are independents, People with power are Alliance (Pro-governement). This is the way of politics.

I just ask everyone to remember these how you feel about centralized non-cultural governments the next time you hear of the wonders of the U.N..

Only the half mad are wholly alive.
E.A.

DC4BS

Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MEHTbI:

a'm not an expert in american XIX century history, so i'll think of it WWII-like way :)))

(i still wonder... on what side russians fought [edited] - for Unification or Independence? :))

Um. I think they voted for independance... Before they voted against it.

I'd be fighting for the Indies. But hopefully not under Mals command (Cause I'm not Zoe)...

------------------------------------------
FOX Execs...

dc4bs

HAFTHAND

Sunday, December 18, 2005 12:07 AM

Independents all the way but only if they had some plan for some form of government. Independence is great but there has to be structure or it will all go to hell!!!

Love, Ally
'Comfort me with apples for I am sick of love' -Solomon

ELEKA

Sunday, January 1, 2006 11:45 PM

Indpendants.

Governments are inherently flawed, espically when they try and go all totalitarian dictatory on us. I mean, living in toady's waorld I'm an Independant since too many signs are pointing to some big nasty popping out of the world's governments at some point in my lifetime.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jayne! Try not to steal too much of their shit.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, January 2, 2006 12:15 AM

Indepenance.

Big surprise I'm sure.

There are some problems in the world, in 500 years someone might look at the present day US and very correctly say that it is a savage nation that is in bad need of outside help.

If that someone existed today, another nation with better education, medicine, social programs, food production, resources, technology, and all such things do you think I would simply let them come in, topple my government, and replace it with something more enlightened?

Hell no, and I don’t even like my government at the moment. I don’t care if it is better afterwards, I don’t like to be told what to do, and I’m not letting anybody tell me what to think. If someone wants to control what I think I immediately know that they don’t deserve to decide. At the very least they can be polite enough to try to hide it from me by covertly introducing memes in propaganda, not by destroying everything my people have stood for and then casting themselves as the benevolent saviors.

I don’t like it when my people do that, and I would stop them if I could, why would I allow someone else to do it to me?

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, January 2, 2006 12:20 AM

You know all of what I just said assumes that I'm either on or near the independent planets. If I were actually on a Core world I don't know. I wouldn't be on the side of Unification, but I might be neutral.

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