Gender associations to fans of Joss Whedon series

POSTED BY: EasyMark
UPDATED: Friday, December 9, 2005 15:13
VIEWED: 7774
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LOOKATTHATBIRD

Thursday, December 8, 2005 5:14 PM

I'm a woman and I love Firefly. Most of my friends who are into firefly are women too.I always thought Buffy was kind of silly. Even though I was a teenage girl when it was on, I never related to her in the least. All the characters on Firefly, regardless of gender, seem very real. They all react to situations the way certain kinds of people would. I think that people connect to characters that behave kind of like they would, so it's like seeing a part of yourself in that far off world. You experience things you can't in real life and you feel for the characters you relate to. I don't relate to characters just because they look like me and deffinately not just because they are girls. Zoe is probably the least relatable character for me. I relate more to Simon, Wash, River, and Mal.
And whoever posted about how men find gender more important than women, great point. It's kind of taboo for a man to look up to a female character as a hero or a role model.

GIXXER

Thursday, December 8, 2005 5:34 PM

No gender thingummybobs here. I'm an equal opportunities geek.

I look up to Zoe and Mal as heroes in the conventional sense.

I look up to Inara and Book because they are OK in my book.

I look up to Simon and Wash because they have no bravado, but have an inner heroic steely quality that they call on when they need.

I look up to River because...well, blimey. Where do you start?

I look up to Kaylee because she's a little sunbeam.

I look up to Jayne. It's murder on the neck, mind...

Your Buffies and Angels didn't engage me as much, though. Rose, Doctor Ecclestone Who and Captain Jack really got me.

G

There'll be poems and songs.

ZOID

Thursday, December 8, 2005 5:52 PM

Lookatthatbird wrote:

Quote:
...And whoever posted about how men find gender more important than women, great point. It's kind of taboo for a man to look up to a female character as a hero or a role model.

As a man, I strongly disagree with this statement, at least from my viewpoint. The problem with most female heroes is that they are so badly drawn, or as I put it previously, they are caricatures of the heroic characteristics of women. I believe there is heroism in real women, as Joss clearly also believes. So, I like the female characters of Firefly because they are 'real', and they reflect the strength of the women we meet everyday. They are heroes to me, and I look up to them as role models of the characterisics all human beings should strive to cultivate in their own personalities.

I have no problem relating to/accepting a strong female character. But ya gotta give me one first. Joss gave me at least 7 in Firefly. Other writers -- whether male or female -- seem to have problems delivering even one.

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
The 7 I refer to above, in the order they pop into my head, for whatever reason:

Zoe
Kaylee
Inara
River
YoSaffBridge
Nandi
Our Girl, Serenity (she takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin')

-zed
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

MALSGIRL

Thursday, December 8, 2005 6:51 PM

I've been with Firefly from the start, but I came to Buffy late and haven't yet made the leap to Angel. I had similar impressions of Buffy, that it was a silly show for silly teenage girls. While, I was a teenage girl I didn't consider myself silly. Then one day I'm channel surfing, because there's nothing on (so what's new) and I decide to finally watch some Buffy and I was hooked. I don't think it was ever a matter of gender. In fact for the first year or so I really didn't like Buffy herself (I've very much gotten over that)but it was Giles and Spike that drew me in.

I don't watch shows because they have strong females to relate to. I'm a fan of several shows with strong females though (SG1, Farscape to name a couple). I watch shows because I like the characters in general and I will admit, it is generally the male characters that draw me in. I have to agree with JetFlair

Quote:
But the guys did it for me. Make River the lead instead of Mal, and it would have been just another show.

Mal made the show, he was the reason I tuned in after the Train Job, he was the reason I gave the show more time. If I hadn't attached to Mal so much I might have missed this great show. And as I watched it more and more my affection for the other characters grew and came to very near the level of my affection for Mal.

In general I would have to say I don't watch shows because I relate to the characters, because I see myself in them. I watch because I like them. Often because they aren't like me or anyone I know. I don't know an men like Mal, so loyal and heroic. What I wouldn't give to be Kaylee, to be under Mals wing like that. Well I have to be off, so that'll just have to be it for now.

_____________________________

"You will keep a civil tongue in that mouth or I will sew it shut."
~Mal to Jayne

MICKEY6

Thursday, December 8, 2005 7:00 PM

I'm female, and like all of Whedon's series. My brother is the one who got me hooked on Buffy in season four (I'd watched the first ten episodes or so of the series, and wasn't terribly impressed, but by season four, it had improved by miles), and he also hooked me on Firefly.

Firefly's failure wasn't due to having too many men, or being hard to relate to for women, it was due to Fox advertising it as something it wasn't, screwing up the show order right off the bat, and mucking with the air dates so nobody could even find it to watch by the end. If Buffy or Angel had premiered on a big network instead of WB, they would have been killed within their first seasons, too. Network TV just isn't designed to let shows find their viewers; only on the upstarts are small successes given a chance to turn into big ones.

.....
It takes a village to raise a child, and an army to raze a village.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, December 8, 2005 7:55 PM

I'm a woman who has enjoyed all Whedonesque shows. For me, it's not about strong female/hot male leads as much as how no one is stuck in a stereotype based on gender, intelligence, strength, sexuality, whatever. Joss creates these complex characters who do unexpected things, and yet they always feel real and true to themselves. If he does have a stereotypical character (or storyline) show up, it's usually as a source of ridicule. (He's so good at that...)

I can see that Buffy had more appeal to women, but I always thought FF would have a bigger male audience. I'm curious what the split is.

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

HOGWAFFLE

Thursday, December 8, 2005 8:16 PM

As a woman (23) i find all three shows easy to relate too I think its more in Joss's writing that the characters, because he makes the characters people, not charactures. I mean most women dont have a problem relating to men in real life. Do they? Lol dont answer that i am not even raising that issue. But i am curious the age span of fans. Most of the people who i know who watch it are oh 18-28 plus my older family members, but i feel like when i saw it in the theater there were a lot of like 40 and up people. Any input? Include those you know who are older cause i mean most grandmas arent logging on here=)

MINIME

Thursday, December 8, 2005 8:29 PM

Well, I'm a girl (I feel like I'm back in primary school - elementary or grade school for Americans out there)... and I was a Buffy/Angel fan from way back. From even before it became an ok thing to be a fan of. In fact, it was because I am such a fan that I bought the Firefly DVD series without knowing anything about it other than what was written on the DVD packaging and the brief comments Mr Whedon had made in DVD commentaries on Angel. (No Firefly on TV in Australia until after it had been on DVD for about 9 months.)
Anyway, I think it was the Willow character that drew me. As a wimpy long-standing nerd myself, I loved that character. Different kind of strength. By the time she became stronger in the more conventional sense of the word, I was hooked on plot and character and dialogue.
Interesting discussion you guys have going here.

VIOLETRIX

Thursday, December 8, 2005 9:47 PM

i haven't gone to a conference, since i'm new to this, so i can't answer the first question. though someday i'd like to go to a con.
as for the second question, i'm almost 29 so i've always had a little bit of a hard time relating to buffy, since it's always been a bit younger than me. but relating to firefly was no problem. you know what it was, initially? the size of jayne's arms. jayne appealed to me on a completely basic, animal level so i kept watching the show. i wish i could say that it was some philosophical, existential draw that made me buy the dvd set, but it was just adam baldwin as jayne. the rest came later.

i know i'm shallow. i can live with that.

http://violetrix.blogspot.com

EARTHSHINE

Thursday, December 8, 2005 9:58 PM

I'm of the female persuasion and 41(everyone in the grocery store knows thanks to my 7yr old, why not the big damn fans?). I got into Firefly thru netflix-never saw it mangled on fox. I love the show not because of any of the gender "roles" but because of the excellent acting, engaging story lines, writing that treated me like an adult w/ 1/2 a functioning brain. ie: no "resets" as if a consequence in a prior ep. just didnt happen, so you really must start at the begining to get all the nuances. That fact that they mirror that life really does have many shades of grey and colors of gose and isnt a happily ever after fairy tale. Course the tight pants, rugged good looks and muscles didnt hurt in the least..This was also the case for me with Farscape (somedays you feel like aliens somedays you dont..)

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