Firefly and the Heinlein Connection.

POSTED BY: Ruthie
UPDATED: Sunday, July 20, 2003 16:18
VIEWED: 18048
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WULFHAWK

Monday, June 30, 2003 7:14 AM

Hell, whatever fool fella thinks he's superior to a woman deserves what he gets, ma'am. Women are smarter in some of the most important ways we measure smarts, are usually mentally tougher than the usual run of men, and, well, are prettier, too.

tanstaafl

KENWOOD

Monday, June 30, 2003 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
On a happier note, I want to read some Heinlein, where do I start? I am a virgin.

"Stranger in a Strange Land" Heinlein hated it and said he only wrote it for the money, but in my oppinion it is the only thing that qualifies him to be in the top 10 Sci-Fi authors. He wrote a number of other good works, and some drivel ( Farnem's Freehold {sp} ), but nothing else that would put him in the top 10. If you follow a Libertarian bent or are big on self reliance and individualism you'll probably like his work.

By the by, here is Heinlein's list of the 21 things every human should be able to do:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog,
conn a ship,
design a building,
write a sonnet,
balance accounts,
build a wall,
set a bone,
comfort the dying,
take orders,
give orders,
cooperate,
act alone,
solve equations,
analyze a new problem,
pitch manure,
program a computer,
cook a tasty meal,
fight efficiently,
die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein

Don't look back, som'thin' might be gainin' on ya.
Who let the pigs play poker?
Evo Shander was right!

KENWOOD

Monday, June 30, 2003 12:57 PM

Again, sorry for the crotchetyness. Maybe I'm misogynistic, too?

No your just an SOB.

Later,

ME.

Don't look back, som'thin' might be gainin' on ya.
Who let the pigs play poker?
Evo Shander was right!

MARK

Monday, June 30, 2003 6:42 PM

Regarding Heinlein and women...

I think the Heinster is the best chap to answer the questions of what he was like with women. While in several books he did come across as making women weak and submissive to the big, strong men... Well. In Number of the Beast, both of the principle female characters could kick ass like nobody's business. They were both tougher than their male counterparts and one even ends up smacking down Lazarus Long. They just like people to remember that they have their feminine side.

To quote Heinlein:
"The mistake we made was not in putting shoes on them or teaching them to read, we should never have taught them to talk."

Funny guy.

Twelve spheres of unendurable brightness spalled the velvety blackness of space.
The silence on Lester Tourville's flag bridge was absolute
And then the spell was broken as Shannon Foraker looked up from her console from where she had just sent a seemingly innocent command to the main computers of State Security's finest Superdreadnoughts.
"Oops." She said.

LUNATIKAT

Monday, June 30, 2003 7:43 PM

Dear Wulfhawk,
Say wha-? Was that comment about leaving the wife and then crawling back a generic comment about what might qualify one as a dirty old man or was it an actual reference to Mr. Heinlein? I know he divorced the first Mrs. Heinlein and married Virginia Heinlein, but to the best of my knowledge they were united unto death. Did I miss something?

Lunatikat - the cat who smacked into walls.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, June 30, 2003 10:39 PM

I go away for a few days and I get talked about more than ever before, interesting.

So I have to ask, what is so wrong with my spelling? I actually do put my posts through a word processor (Microsoft Word) because my typing is atrocious. According to Word the word “misogynistic” does not exist, so if it isn’t spelled correctly I’m sorry. It was how Riverside typed it, and it seemed a natural progression from misogynist. In addition to that a miss spelling of the word difference and I some how let an “and” slip through without an “a.”
I also add to that that I said “Starship Trooper” not “Starship Troopers.”

So where is the really unintelligible spelling? I haven’t had enough sleep to be sure that when I looked over it there were no wrong words, which doesn’t get helped by spell check.

I didn’t think that I was arrogant or pompous, of course if I am arrogant and pompous then I wouldn’t know would I? I know my grammar is quite odd. That’s another way of saying bad. I make the distinction only because if you were talking to me in person and I spoke in the manner in which I type you would likely understand perfectly.

I asked Riverside to show me examples, and said that I didn’t think she had read his work if she thought that. It turned out I was right, she hadn’t read his work. Or rather she had but had only vague memories. Big deal, if it turned out I was wrong then I was wrong. I said what I guessed from her post, I don’t see the problem with it. Maybe that’s what makes me pompous.

SUCCATASH, if you’re still taking advice, I suggest that you make sure to read Starship Troopers and Stranger in a Strange Land. I actually read the second for a short story in a literature class, longest short story ever, but the novel was well worth the read, and I got the grade.

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
5. Chris the Cynic is evil. For some reason.

Oh, if anyone should find out why I’m evil, please tell me. I have no idea what caused this.

LUNATIKAT

Monday, June 30, 2003 11:37 PM

Succatash,
Unsure of what you mean by "doesn't hold back". RAH never really holds back, but does have different messages with different books. So. Hmmm. Well, before going further, please let me say that I hope when you have finished reading his non-young adult books, you'll check out the young adult category as well. In some ways, the more constrained RAH is by editors, the cleaner his story-telling gets.
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, lovely education in how to hold a revolution. More later, have to get to work immediately. Sorry.

Lunatikat- Party-sized for your pleasure.

SERGEANTX

Tuesday, July 1, 2003 12:01 AM

CTC,

I can't speak for everyone on the board, but I don't think you're evil. Some of your posts bring up interesting points and I don't want to see you leave the board. For that reason I hope you pay at least some attention to some of the criticism you're receiving.

One thing I have to say... I skip over about ninety percent of what you post. Personally I find your 'Debate 101' style of posting annoying in the extreme. If it looks like you might have said something interesting I start reading your posts, but as soon as you start the pedantic lecture, criticizing and contradicting everything someone else has said, I find another post... and here's where it gets tricky. You post on a LOT of threads, and for those of us who don't see any point in playing lawyer, it is a little bit like you're crashing the party.

Now obviously you're not the only one who engages in this kind of posting(it takes two to tango), and perhaps some people enjoy the adversarial style of posting, but for those of us who don't - give it a rest sometimes. Try to get feel for the tone of the thread before you turn it into a bickering session. For some threads that kind of stuff is appropriate. There have been numerous threads debating technical minutiae. I find them rather pointless and boring, but its clear what's being discussed and easy to avoid.

I'm sure not everyone on here shares the above point of view and that's fine. I've never seen any point in addressing this issue in the past, but it seems that lately you're becoming something of a scapegoat and the object of much scorn. I can't say whether you deserve it or not, but its kind of ugly. If you back off little bit and engage in more conversation and less debate, I'm guessing most everyone will get off your back.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

SUCCATASH

Tuesday, July 1, 2003 12:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lunatikat:
Succatash,
Unsure of what you mean by "doesn't hold back".

Well, I suppose I could use Robert Jordan for example. His main characters are all horny, but all they do is blush and act childish.

George R. R. Martin, on the other hand, writes with big brass balls. When it's time for a sex scene or a violent scene, he does it right. He doesn't make me feel like I'm reading something censored.

I've just about run out of steam in the Fantasy genre. I've read everything, and I'm starting to weary of it. Stuff I loved as a young teen just isn't doing it for me anymore. I was extremely frustrated until I found George R.R. Martin, and now I'm frustrated again because he's taking a REALLY long time on Book 4.

I really liked Stephen Donaldson's "The Real Story" because, unlike Thomas Covenant, the Real Story is bad ass and doesn't hold back. Very violent and uncensored-feeling. Great Sci Fi in my opinion.

Thanks for your response.

- Succatash

WULFHAWK

Tuesday, July 1, 2003 12:43 AM

Luna, whilst I may be mistaken (refer to previous posts ), I seem to remember reading of a brief 'runaway' episode in RAH's second marriage. I may have mentally transposed it from some other author's life, but thats what I remember. I'll look about some, see what I can dig up. Anyone else know about this?

And I ain't no SOB! I'm some kinda sumbich. There's a difference there, one I think Mr. Heinlein might recognize and appreciate.

tanstaafl

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