Voiceover or not? and IS Deckard a replicant?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Sunday, June 25, 2006 23:07
VIEWED: 9338
PAGE 4 of 7
Okay, I watched it again last night and I've made my decision.
I'm TOTALLY on the fence.
I can't make up my mind and it doesn't matter..it's still my all time favourite flick( untill September, anyway).
Thank a lot, Browncoats.
The sometimes replicant Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Okay, this horse ain't dead enough for me.
I watched it AGAIN last night and I noticed something else.
It seems they only recently were able to make replicants seem absolutly, totally human. On the floating ad it referred to " your new friend" like replicants were more like Sebastians toys, maybe not that toy-like, but not 100% human like either.I assume Rachael and Roy to be among the first of this new line, as Sebastian acts like he's never actually seen one before and it takes him time to figure it out ( I know Nexus 6 aren't allowed on Earth, but if they had been around for a long time I think Sebastian would have recognised Priss as being one sooner).
And Bryant seems to have a history with Deckard that goes back more than four measily years...
Again, I think most of this is intentional so as to leave open many interpretations.
Now I'm leaning toward human, but I know I'll never get off this damn fence!
The sore butted Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
chrisisall:
Quote:
TYRELL: We began to recognize in them a strange obsession. After all, they are emotionally inexperienced, with only a few years in which to store up the experiences which you and I take for granted. If we gift them with a past, we create a cushion or a pillow for their emotions, and consequently, we can control them better.
Deckard: Memories! You're talking about memories!
Of course Deckard and Bryant have a history together, otherwise there wouldn't be a cushion -- dare I say, a 'pillow' -- for Deckard's emotions. Gaff might otherwise find it difficult to to get the desired results from his blade runner investment...
Consider this: If you're still enjoying pondering this puzzle, some 25 years downstream from its somewhat disappointing theatrical run, what does that say about the power of science fiction to provoke philosophical contemplation? Furthermore, I think sci-fi -- when it's at its best -- is the only genre capable of providing a framework for such introspection.
The fact that this enduring enigma -- is Deckard a human or a replicant? -- has been a hot topic of debate at least since the Director's Cut came out, only underscores my earlier statement about the central theme of the movie. At what point does a machine become worthy of being considered human? What is essential about being human?
The fact that we really can't tell whether Deckard is human or machine becomes a proof of the Turing Test. If we cannot tell the difference, then there is no difference ("More human than human"). When the machine (programming) can so convincingly mimic a human (intelligence) that you can argue about it for 25 years and still not come to a firm conclusion, then it no longer matters which he is. By the Turing Test (or Chinese Box, if one prefers), he is intelligence in either case.
If he is intelligence, if it takes a hundred cross-referenced questions by Voight-Kampff examination (or more than 5 minutes by Turing), this raises serious ethical questions. As Rachael asked, "Have you ever taken that test yourself?" and "Have you ever retired a human by mistake?", both questions Deckard does not answer. If Deckard is a human, he's just doing his job. If he's a machine elevated to intelligence, then it makes the other replicants intelligent -- human -- too. If he's a machine intelligence killing other machine intelligences, then he is a murderer, even if it's "nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into Heaven for," as Roy Batty accused Tyrell.
Making a 'human', programmed to kill other humans, with memories to make them better able to accept such a role, is Tyrell's and humanity's great sin. This was the ethical flaw at the end of the movie version of "I, Robot".
In closing, let's play a little thought experiment: Let's say you, the reader, were actually a 2-year old replicant, with embedded memories of an entire life equal to your current span of 30 apparent years. Then one day, you take a psych eval at work and are informed that you are in fact a replicant. Do you suddenly see yourself as a machine, or do you still think of yourself as human? How would you feel if you learned you only had 2 more years of servitude to your masters before your body ceased functioning and was thrown on the scrap heap? How would you react to the idea that your masters were sending an assassin to kill you, because you found out the truth about yourself, that you are a replicant?
I think Deckard figures out that he is a replicant at the end, as he gathers Rachael from his apartment and finds Gaff's origami unicorn, even if viewers remained unconvinced. The fact that Ridley Scott himself said Deckard was a replicant, and yet the debate still rages on, is testimony to how well he crafted the argument, regardless Deckard's status, either human or machine.
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
BTW, we are all replicants. It's just done at the molecular level through the agency of our parents' DNA. If you happen to
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
A fitting and perfect end to this thread.
Thanks so much Zoid, for sharing some views with us that we might not all have considered.
You've done a man's job, sir.
The replicant after all Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
This was one of my favourite threads of all time- Zoid's musings here should be required reading at the Acadamy. I thought I'd 'bump' it for the newbies who like Blade Runner.
That old thread-re-activator, Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
The one thing I think you've missed WRT Rachel and Deckard is the line by Tyrell "the light that burns twice as bright burns half as long." Roy has a limited lifespan as a byproduct of his enhanced abilities, but that's ok he's a soldier model and expendable.
My thought is that if you build a replicant with human levels of strength and endurance you extend their lifespan, this is usefull for a Bladerunner because a lot of their job involves "streetsmart" skills and contacts that take time to develop. If it takes you two years to build up the contacts you need and you only live 4 years then you only have 2 really productive years. If a none superhuman Bladerunner gets say 10 years, this really extends their usefullness.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Wow. A very interesting possibility! And so soon, too!
Chrisisall Batty
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'm not sure if Deckard was a replicant or not. The original story Blade Runner was based on was Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Philip K. Dick and it's been sooooooo long since I read it I can't remember if there was an ironic twist at the end or not but given Dick's penchant for irony I wouldn't be surprised if that was the way things were supposed to go and that Deckard was a replicant. One thing I am certain of: Bush is a replicant and I think Cheney has the remote control unit :-)
Jaytee
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I believe Chrisisall had another Blade Runner thread going, to which I responded several weeks ago.
To answer the first question, my opinion is the Director's Cut without the voice-over is the better version. As to whether Deckard is a replicant or not, I have to say it doesn't matter one way or the other to the quality of the film. Either way works for me.
In that other thread I linked to my review of it, written about three years ago now. No reason not to provide it again in case anyone might be itnerested. Don't worry about it being a Tripod site, there will be no pop-up ads. I pay a monthly fee to eliminate those.
http://templetongate.tripod.com/bladerunner.htm
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
The one thing that bothers me that hasn't been brought up yet: I believe Deckard was retired from the police force. If he's a replicant it doesn't seem as though they'd let him run around loose, so to speak, althought the idea that Gaff is his "handler" may make that plausible. However, another point, Tyrell claims Rachel is the "newest model" of rep, but Deckard would seem to be as "emotionally" advanced as she is and he's been around for a while.
I realize Ridley Scott admitted Deckard was a rep, but I was totally taken aback when I heard that, and wondered if he was just trying to stir up controversy after the fact...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME