Firefly and the Heinlein Connection.

POSTED BY: Ruthie
UPDATED: Sunday, July 20, 2003 16:18
VIEWED: 18048
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RUTHIE

Saturday, June 28, 2003 5:59 PM

One of the things it seems that a lot of the FF fans who have posted in the other thread I started have in common is a liking for the books of Robert Heinlein, so I hope that it's not inappropriate to start a thread to explore this connection a bit further?

When I first heard that Joss W had started work on a TV show that was to be a sort of Western set in space, my first thought was "Ah, like the frontier worlds in Heinlein's work".
In actual fact, the image that came into my mind was from the very end of "Tunnel in the Sky", as Rod sets off to lead a group of colonisers, heading up a wagon train.

This frontier feel is common to quite a lot of his books - as well as "Tunnel", "Farmer in the Sky", "Red Planet" and "Time Enough for Love" spring to mind.

I almost feel that Firefly would fit neatly into Heinlein's "Future History" - a bit of the history not told in it's specifics by Heinlein himself, perhaps, but a period during which Lazarus Long was fliting round the galaxy trying to keep one step ahead of the authorities - he wouldn't like the Alliance any more than the Serenity's crew does!

Please don't think I'm trying to detract in any way from the originality of Firefly - it definitly is not in any way copied from any of Heinlein's work, but I wouldn't be suprised if Whedon hadn't grown up enjoying these stories, as many of us have.

I spent such a lot of my mental time living in this future world of star travel and adventure as I grew up, and still go there whenever this world's reality needs a bit of eclipsing, that I'm just glad to have another "Door into Summer"....

CAPTAINMAL

Saturday, June 28, 2003 6:55 PM

Oh, absolutly!!
I can't speak for others but RAH is far and away my favorite SF authur - there isn't even a close 2nd place.

but now you've got be brainstotming...
Nathan Fillion as Manny in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistriss" or Oscar in "Glory Road"

Gina Torres as Friday....

Sean Maher as Michael Valintine Smith....

The possibilites!!!

Okay, back on topic.

I see the same sort of "mentality" you do, not only in the enviorments, but the dialouge and the characters. If Joss wasn't influenced by RAH, then maybe he's being possesed because it's striking to me....

I think I'll do a survey of this over on my other favorite board and see what reaction it gets...

"Why we still discussin' this?"

SUCCATASH

Saturday, June 28, 2003 9:02 PM

I must admit I've read WAY more Fantasy than hard core Sci Fi, but I've made up my mind. I'm gonna start reading me some Heinlein!

MARK

Saturday, June 28, 2003 9:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ruthie:
I almost feel that Firefly would fit neatly into Heinlein's "Future History" - a bit of the history not told in it's specifics by Heinlein himself, perhaps, but a period during which Lazarus Long was fliting round the galaxy trying to keep one step ahead of the authorities - he wouldn't like the Alliance any more than the Serenity's crew does!

I'm a long-time Heinlein fan... I don't like everything he's done but some, like 'Moon is a Harsh Mistress', 'Space Cadet', 'Starship Troopers' and 'Number of the Beast' are amongst my favourite books.

As for the Alliance... RAH pretty much created the Alliance when he wrote 'Starship Troopers'... I mean, the Purple Bellies actually wear Fed uniforms from the MOVIE of ST!!

Slightly Nazi-istic... After all, the book was supposed to be a treatise on the subject of arming nations.

Twelve spheres of unendurable brightness spalled the velvety blackness of space.
The silence on Lester Tourville's flag bridge was absolute
And then the spell was broken as Shannon Foraker looked up from her console from where she had just sent a seemingly innocent command to the main computers of State Security's finest Superdreadnoughts.
"Oops." She said.

SERGEANTX

Saturday, June 28, 2003 9:22 PM

I saw a strong connection with Heinlein's point of view from the very first episode of Firefly. From the independent libertarian(librarian?) spirit, to the particular brand of feminism represented, even the way in which sex is handled, all are very much in line with the future stories of Heinlein. To Joss Whedon's credit, I think Firefly is more complete and the characters better developed in many ways, than many of Heinlein's... and Heinlein is without doubt my favorite science fiction author.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

LERXST

Saturday, June 28, 2003 9:32 PM

Hmmm. I think Serenity needs a cat. They can borrow Sylvester, my attack cat. He don't walk thru walls tho.

_________________________________________________
Raspberry! Only one man would dare give me the raspberry...LONESTAR!!

CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, June 28, 2003 9:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark:
As for the Alliance... RAH pretty much created the Alliance when he wrote 'Starship Troopers'... I mean, the Purple Bellies actually wear Fed uniforms from the MOVIE of ST!!

I have a friend how loves Heinlein more than myself and the only sure fire way to get her to raise her voice is mentioning Starship Troopers the movie. She is very adamant that people know that there is very little connection between that and the book.

When I read the book, after I had seen the movie, I found myself thinking that it would be nice if someone would make a movie out of it. Naturally the reason I thought this was because the movie didn’t qualify as an adaptation of it. I had the same felling about the Bourne Identity.

(I’m not saying either of these movies were bad.)

WULFHAWK

Saturday, June 28, 2003 10:48 PM

No, Ruthie, it's very appropo! whether Joss admits or no, 'Firefly' is pure Heinlein. Mal's anti-gov leanings, stubborn survivalism, canny business sense, homespun homilies, and always-armed habits are the very pic of Lazerus Long.

As for the other works of Heinlein that have made it to the silver screen, none have done justice to the books they were so loosely based on. 'Puppetmasters' is still one of the creepiest books I've ever read, and 'Starship Troopers' one of the most thought provoking for me.

I would dearly love to see 'Door Into Summer' done well.

Oh, and I want to date Hazel.

tanstaafl

GINOBIFFARONI

Sunday, June 29, 2003 12:37 AM

I feel the same way, except I was a huge fan of the book for a long time. Then I watched the movie and hated it.

The script no way resembles the book, and to be honest I really dislike the work of this particular director. Everything he does looks like Robocop....

As for the Bourne Identity, loved the book ( as well as most other Ludlum novels ) but also liked the movie. Two seperate works, but felt both were well crafted and enjoyable.

RIVERSIDE

Sunday, June 29, 2003 2:05 AM

Well, I'm sure from a sci-fi point of view there are probably some Heinlein leanings. However, I don't like to put Joss in the same catagory, because I think Heinlein was extremely misogynistic and I've never seen anything like that in Joss' work.

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