What Joss ruined for me....
POSTED BY: gypsylife
UPDATED: Sunday, November 27, 2005 04:54
VIEWED: 8545
PAGE 3 of 3
Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Giantvilhead.. I'm shocked to hear you label any part of Trek as sexist or prejudiced. I know you're a creative guy, but you're definately a little brainshy in the history department. If any one show is the opposite of those labels, Trek is it.
I meant that the original series is sexist by today's standards.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
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I know what you mean.
I can't watch anything, without thinking "That's no Firefly/Serenity." or, "That guy's cute, but he's no Nathan Fillon or Sean Maher"
~A message from Serenyty~
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Quote:
Rae- I kind of look at the StarTrek shows as the "alliance" side of the 'verse, and Firefly as "everyone else." Different sides of the same coin, as it were...
Yeah, I mostly agree with that. I can imagine Captain Picard in Bushwacked not leaving the stolen carco at the end of that episode.
On the other hand, if Voyager met Serenity, I can imagine Janeway becoming one of Inara's clients.
Series are sometimes long-winded and become boring after a while. Firefly could not have been interesting for more than 15 seasons anyway...
When all is said and done, we go for the best tv that's available and then we move on. As proof, I watched Battlestar Gallactica (the first one) when I was a kid...
Gedeon
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But imagine what Janeway would have done if she met Zhaan (Virginia Hey) and a living ship named Moya. If Farscape had a well-deserved 5th and 6th season.... if only...
A plant with consciousness and a conscience, a beautiful soul loved by the sun. An inevitable resurrection of the plant that gave the show a soul, and a soul to a plant... if only...
Legends can be now and forever.
Sorry if I ramble. Since I've touched on the subject of Farscape castmembers, there is song that should have been dedicated to Zhaan a long time ago, it just never seemed to find it's way home. The absolutely supreme bands 'Yes' and 'Tangerine Dream' ~ 'Legend'ary, (aptly applied to the only piece of decent cinema involving Tom Cruise, "Legend") gave us a musical masterpiece that goes unrecognized even still.
...teaching us to love for goodness' sake.
This song was SOOOOOOO wasted on that movie. It should have been the Zhaan theme-song.
It'll find it's way back home. The beginning is half the start.
XG
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
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I loooove that song. I've loved that song ever since I was 7. ...now and forever...mmmm. Gonna be singing it all night now.
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If Zhaan ever decided to come back she'd get a semi-cheesy dedication from me (REO Speedwagon)...
Ya she'd get the 'Keep on Loving You' song...
I betray my Mal-dedication, but it's a lost cause anyhow. Life ain't a whirlwind, and I haven't forgotten what I've started fighting for... give me back Firefly when yer done with them movies Whedon.
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Quote:
The quality of SG-1 has been deteriorating ever since it went from Showtime to the Sci-Fi channel.
Thank God. I thought either I was the only one who noticed this or I was deluding myself that I used to be watching a decent show here. SG-1 is still watchable, but weak, and SG-Atlantis isn't watchable at all.
Anyway, yeah, regular TV Star Trek etc is pretty much ruined. The people in it don't act like people. Everything is predictable and they often reveal hidden truths about human nature which are not really true.
Joss never leaves me feeling "Nah, that's not how it would go down."
Farscape is still quite good. There are things they don't do well, but it's okay, because there are other things they do great, and the whole spectacle is beautiful to watch.
Lexx was watchable after Buffy/Firefly, but Sliders wasn't. What seemed to be four characters experiencing different worlds upon reflection, post joss and seeing again, turned out to be four annoying narrators telling pretty simple stories in different worlds. Blake's 7 was completely unwatchable afterwords.
So, sure Joss has raised the bar. Unfortunately television will now roll over and die. But maybe with the joss bar as a base some new media can be born.
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Okay, here are my random comments on the rest of this thread:
xeroG,
1. Buffy is worth it. The show changes each season, for me seasons 3 and 6 are best. seasons 5 and 7 are probably weakest. But still, it's amazingly good. It's probably better than firefly, but only because the characters have had time to develop. Firefly's only problem is finding its spacelegs. There are many things in it that might not work, I thought zoe/wash wasn't working, and book wasn't working, I still feel mal/inara isn't working. Simon/Kaylee may work, it's still nowhere near as interesting as Xander/Anya, or Willow/Tara.
2. Star Trek's biases are the sort that only someone who is sure they aren't biased can make. They start out by showing all races of human to be equal, but suddenly klingons are stupid and evil. They come to terms with klingons and suddenly cardasians are evil.
To an objective outside observer, it might look like this:
Klingons are Zulus, or the like, warrior race.
Ferengi are semites, arab or possible jewish. Probably Morrocan.
Cardasians are Nazis, possibly asian Nazis.
Which is just as a straight parallel, but this doesn't need to be a parallel to see that Trek is still thinking always in terms of race. It would have been interesting if threats had evolved as evil corporations of political parties or something. Evil race or stereotype race isn't a very interesting concept.
Again, I don't think this was intentional, I think they were so sure they weren't racist that they didn't realize they were doing it.
I agree the sexist charge won't stick. Trek femmes don't strike me as amazingly realistic the way joss femmes do, but that's because trek has more of a male dominance in writing.
Gedeon,
Given that buffy re-invented itself in new and interesting ways every season, I'm sure firefly would have continued to be interesting.
All,
Zhaan left Farscape after she got skin poisoning from the blue stuff. She argued with the producers but they wouldn't agree to de-blue zhaan, so she quit. She still feels a little bitter about it. I wouldn't mind seeing her come in to one of the other shows as something totally different, I thought she was pretty good.
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I had no idea about the whole blue-makeup thing involving Zhaan. Wow! Feels like a knife in the heart. I always thought her departure from the show was a prelude to her return. When PK wars aired and she failed to show, I should have known. I had no idea.
I love Farscape but this puts it in a whole other light. And PK wars was never nowhere what it should have been without her. Sorry, Crichton's cellmate, the halffaced dude, never owned up to Zhaan's role (can't even remember his name but I know all the villains). No amount of scriptwriting could write him in to replace her.
XG
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Stark. Remember it now. Just an afterthought.
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