Do you think Wal-Mart is evil?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Sunday, November 27, 2005 20:12
VIEWED: 21084
PAGE 14 of 17
Quote:I agree. And I’m not trying to convince everyone to agree with me. I personally think that a healthy economy needs detractors as well as supporters of the general theory.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
We gotta fight corporate giants, not to kill them, just to keep 'em from stepping on our kids and dogs and such from time to time.
Quote:I suppose that maybe that is a source of confusion. I can’t passionately champion every injustice in the world. I don’t have the time and that sounds like something that would give you a heart condition, anyway.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I find nothing to oppose in any of your posts, and many offered a POV that throws light on important matters.
If I may, my only criticism is that your neutrality on this issue can seem to some to be condoning all that Wal-Mart and Corporate America does in the name of profit, since that's just what they do (I don't think that's your feeling here, BTW).
It’s too broad of a category ; it’s like being angry about ‘crime.’ I certainly would admit that the rape and murder of an 11 year old might be evil and I could get some feathers ruffled over that, but stealing a loaf of bread is criminal also, though I might not even view that as wrong under the circumstances. And corporate corruption is almost as broad. It ranges from murder and mayhem to things that might not even be criminal.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Valdron makes some good points. To highlight one, corporations aren't people. They are artificial entities. Corporate functions supercede the wishes and values of the people who 'run' them. As such, these businesses should be judged not as people, but by how well they meet the needs of society.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:Some would say that if they're making a profit, they must be meeting society's needs in some way. But that leaves a big grey area as to where they are detrimental to society, also.
Originally posted by rue:
these businesses should be judged not as people, but by how well they meet the needs of society.
I personally dislike the word corporation, it's root word suggests a body, as if it is alive and should have rights.
I mean, can you throw a corporation in jail?
(hmmm, in theory....)
Chrisisall
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Socialist or not, Walmart isn't normal capitalism, it's too mixed up in politics and too mixed up in China. It breaks too many extant rules. It's not just a new whipping boy of an ongoing problem, it's the poster child for that ongoing problem.
Enron was not an evil corporation. Enron was a good company, with some corrupt people in it who essentially took the money and ran, but apparantly not far enough away. Few things compare to Walmart. Another might be Halliburton. I think AOL Time Warner and CBS Viacom are also out of control, as is Citigroup, aka Saudigroup.
{quote]
Limi wrote:
Without the heretic, we wouldn't make many advances.
Excellent point. That which does not kill us makes us stronger, but bear in ming that that which does kill us, kills us. Ie. Up to a point I agree, but when Walmart breaks extant rules, then it's probably teaching us a less we already learned, and now it's time to put that knowledge into action and stop it. Walmart killing local businesses to build another Walmart clearly gives us nothing. Just more southern christian Sovietization.
Quote:
I found it pretty amusing (in a horrifying way) a couple weeks ago to hear that WalMart has the pieces in place to lobby to raise the minimum wage, and part of what I found humorous (gallows humor, mind) was that they were using this news to placate and sooth in the middle of the latest imbroglio over the dread memos. I recognise that isn't something that would essentially hurt them much, but it would be a fatal stroke for many small businesses they compete against.
Another excellent point. I guess I'm just agreeable guy today. But I thought this one was shrewd. Assuming that Walmart stategizes to eliminate all competition, a strategy of defense might be a good idea. I haven't thought of one yet. Anyone got any ideas?
Here's one idea I had. What about a web consignment shop. Is this a workable idea? I mean a real world front for the internet marketplace for the non-net crowd. By which I mean old people, mostly. Poor people also. But you know, there are a lot of them around, supporting Walmart. I never buy movies and stuff at Walkmart because I buy all that online. I meant walmart, but I thought walkmart was an interesting slip so I left it.
In general, re: the whole natural course, the thing is the goal of a society is to set up the reward system so that the natural flow is in the right direction.
Here take a look at the situation. There is nothing natural about capitalism, it's a completely artificial construct. It was made to emulate nature, but it is not nature. If there is something in it that encourages the total extermination of all that is other, than there is something wrong with the system, and it needs a slight tweaking to set things towards proper flow again. That was done before with the creation of the anti-trust. It may need to be done again.
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DT:
I don't think anybody disagrees that there is something wrong but unfortunately Walmart isn't that unusual as far as Corporations go.
Within Capitalism, at least the way we currently practice it there are two "evolutionary forces" one is the market, the other is regulation. Regulation is the method governments use to effect the market, hopefully in a way that ensures that the capitalist obsession with the bottom line doesn't interfere with the rights of the people.
Look for a moment at animal evolution. Normally if an animal wants to operate in a region colder than it's normal zone it develops thicker fur and extra body fat. That takes several generations. Man invented clothing and fire. Want to hunt animals faster than you? Most animals become faster over time to match their prey. Mankind developed traps and ranged weapons. The environment doesnt change us, we develop techniques to manipulate the environment for our benefit.
Walmart manipulates the market, and leverages governments to use their control of markets to its advantage. By doing so it is successfull and prospers. Competitors seeing what works adopt matching strategies.
My guess is that if tomorrow you changed the rules to stop Walmart getting any help through lobbying or extra grants they would still be as powerfull as before, because they will adapt their strategy to the current situation.
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I guess they're not that bad if you don't have a problem with them devasting small family run businesses in rural communities; exploiting third world labor for increased profits; and poorly paying their employees while providing substandard benefits; and actively using labor union busting techniques. But then again, your right about that being almost every major player in corporate America. I wonder what that says about us?
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Quote:
Originally posted by misbehaven:
I wonder what that says about us?
That we're living in the movie world of Robocop, only without the good-guy cyborg.
Chrisisall, CEO of OCP
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Wal-Mart is not evil.
Wal-mart is ruthless, underhanded, and determined to cut costs and screw workers in order to gain the almighty dollar.
In short Wal-mart is your average company. American or New Zealand owned the purpose of a company is to make money.
We may not like it but that is its purpose.
Apologies for sounding condesending but I find the term Evil a little strong. Evil is ordering a genocide of another tribe, Wal-mart is just being a cold hearted, two faced bastard of a place.
As its function decrees.
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Quote:So...you shop there regularly?
Originally posted by Booksword:
Wal-mart is just being a cold hearted, two faced bastard of a place.
Name witheld upon request
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I am not looking to pick a fight here, but being "ruthless and underhanded" in the pursuit of money could arguably be considered evil, even if it is common place. Exploiting third world labor, so that you can raise your company stock a point or two is neither ethcial, moral, nor virtuous. Just because it is the norm does not make it right. There are plenty of other companies that are not doing what Wal-Mart is doing, and they are still profitable. When is enough money enough?
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