Joss contacts Sci-Fi UK with correct running order

POSTED BY: SimonF
UPDATED: Thursday, June 19, 2003 23:41
VIEWED: 6259
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EMBASSY

Thursday, June 19, 2003 1:26 AM

For me, it's hard to imagine that the villain in "Heart of Gold" would produce a laser weapon without some of the crew of Serenity saying, "Gee, Captain, sure would be great if we had us one of those fancy rayguns," or some similar acknowledgment. A throwaway line like that would be, I think, obligatory, if "The Message" and "Trash" did in fact precede "Heart of Gold."

It's possible that the edit that Tim Minnear mentioned would be related to Jayne's "Can we move this conversation in a not-Jayne's-fault direction?" exchange with Mal early in "Objects in Space." There's already good continuity with "Heart of Gold" from Inara's line to Mal in "Objects in Space," "I don't know why I haven't left already."

If that guess is correct, then maybe continuity works. Maybe. I'm going to have to look at the three unaired episodes again for a look at Kaylee's attitude to River.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:16 AM

The problems that I see don't have to do with Heart of Gold, the have to do with the relationship between Trash and The Message with Objects in Space.

CFENRING

Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:27 AM

We know that Mal, Jayne, Simon and River know what Jayne did. I don't believe we know what the rest of them know, or even if Mal knows that Simon and River do. We do, however, know that Jayne appears to have some sense of shame about what he did.

Or maybe the "Joss liked the 'Well... here I am...' ending better.

SERENITYVALLEY

Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:28 AM

This is a dumb question, but are those dates just for the UK?

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

TVDIR

Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:12 AM

I'm confused, too. We know that there were two more episodes shot and posted following the Fox's hiatus annoucement, and they made that announcement on the same week that OIS aired, which was a week before the 2-hour pilot aired on Fox. Hmmm. I guess Joss wanted to end with OIS and moved it with Heart of Gold.

The only other thing could be: Joss and co. originally had OIS to be in that running order slot, but because of Fox meddling they moved up the production of that episode. Maybe??? Therefore, shooting Trash and The Message after the hiatus annoucement.

MANZO

Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SerenityValley:
This is a dumb question, but are those dates just for the UK?

'Fraid so!

ZIKZAK

Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:10 PM

There be spoilers here!

Well, we all know that the order was SUPPOSED to be:
War Stories
Heart of Gold
Objects in Space
Trash
The Message

Followed by the rest of the season. That's how the episodes were numbered, and that makes sense with the general flow of the episodes.

The hiatus, ordering extra eps, and cancellation messed up that stream since none of those episodes were really meant to be "the end". After War Stories, Firefly's future looked uncertain, and there was only time to air one more episode before the pilot and Christmas break. After that, it was unclear if the remaining three would be shown.

They couldn't use Trash or The Message, since these are quite linked. Certainly, The Message wouldn't have worked alone. And Trash, though fun, just isn't right to be the last episode.

So it came down to Heart of Gold and Objects in Space as the final aired episode. I think they made the right choice.

Now that the DVD and UK are happening, they can revisit the order. We can assume that Trash and Message are glued together like Shindig and Safe. It looks like Heart and Objects are kind of pasted together with the "haven't left" line, and the fact that they were supposed to be aired in that order.

So the question is whether the Heart/Objects pair comes before or after the Trash/Message pair. Heart/Objects is deeper, bleaker, and more meaningful, so I can see moving them to the end. If there were more episodes made, they would CERTAINLY go before Trash/Message, but there you have it.

So rather than having the series end with a couple of less meaningful eps, we have it ending with a couple of more meaningful eps. And even though the continuity doesn't quite work right, that's how it'll be.

I still like the original order, and refuse to believe the series is over. My troubles with this order:
- River's psychicness is revealed in Objects and taken for granted three eps earlier in Trash
- River's shootin' skills are kept in Kaylee's head for 3 eps instead of 1
- The Lassiter is forgotten after the mention in The Message
- Mal's "pass out" kiss comment in Heart loses impact after Trash
- Having two eps in a row end with a funeral is kind of odd

Ped Xing

HJERMSTED

Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:43 PM

Quote:
I still like the original order, and refuse to believe the series is over. My troubles with this order:
- River's psychicness is revealed in Objects and taken for granted three eps earlier in Trash
- River's shootin' skills are kept in Kaylee's head for 3 eps instead of 1
- The Lassiter is forgotten after the mention in The Message
- Mal's "pass out" kiss comment in Heart loses impact after Trash
- Having two eps in a row end with a funeral is kind of odd

Ped Xing

Great concise points that agree with 100%!!

I doubt very much JW is somehow oblivious to these details. I also doubt that Joss would lord over an ill-conceived cut and paste job (adding scenes here, cutting dialog there -- or otherwise messing with the work handed in by the various writers and directors) in order to alter the continuity that had been established just so the series can end with 'Objects in Space' instead of 'The Message'. That would be silly.

Personally, I'm not counting on knowing the true episode order until I am holding the Firefly DVD box set in my eager hands.

Backing out of this debate until that time.

mattro

NIGHTTRAIN

Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:49 PM

Quote:
River's shootin' skills are kept in Kaylee's head for 3 eps instead of 1

-I dont know. Kayle really did not want to mention what river had done because she did not want get river in trouble. I could see how she would want to keep it a secret.

Quote:
- The Lassiter is forgotten after the mention in The Message

True. But so were the goods from arial so i dont see it as too much of a problem. We can just assume they sold the lassiter and spent the money on ship repairs, food, etc.

Quote:
Mal's "pass out" kiss comment in Heart loses impact after Trash

- no it doesn't. Its still Hi-larious.

Quote:
Having two eps in a row end with a funeral is kind of odd

not at all deaths always happen in 3's

Quote:
River's psychicness is revealed in Objects and taken for granted three eps earlier in Trash

- this is the only one i cant really explain. But if Heart of gold goes in the # 10 spot then theres nothing to explain why inara hasn't left and hasn't even mentioned it for 3 full episodes. And my final arguement is that Joss has given us the real order. So give it up and blindly follow what joss says like we all should!!!

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:41 PM

Once again I started to type up a response and life called me away for a few hours. So if this seems a bit off, sorry.

The story that Joss called up Sci Fi UK and said this is the right order is made up. Sorry people, but it wasn’t Joss. However one of the people at Sci Fi UK did say that someone did call, and that this was one of Joss’ people. (This was not in a release or anything official however, just a Q and A thing on a forum.) However the way it was stated was that this was not a major factor in the decision to change the order. (That is me interpreting.)

The reason that I say it was not a major factor is the reasons for the change were three, the first one was that there was speculation on the part of the staff, another was that in a particular thread people asked for the order to be changed and said that the one to change it to was the one Tim said. The other reason was of course the Joss’s person contacting them. The way it was presented seemed to me to imply that the thread was the important one. Regardless of whether I’m right on that the Joss’ person contacting them was not presented as any more important than the fans on the thread or staff speculation.

He (or maybe she) went on to say that they checked the episodes themselves and this was the order they decided on.

Ok, so my theory that this might not be the order Joss wanted is really weak, but this makes me wonder. If I were working at Sci Fi UK and Joss called me up and said, “Hey the order’s wrong, it should be…” I would say that, I would change the order, and I would watch the episodes in the right order. What I would not do is keep my mouth shut about it, change the order and leave everyone guessing why, and watch the episodes not in that order to make sure Joss wasn’t wrong. I would trust Joss and not make a point of later saying, “I made sure it was right,” because people would laugh at me for hearing from joss it was right and trusting him so little that I had verify it.

Now as I said it wasn’t Joss who did the calling, but how much less do you have to trust someone to have the mentality that says, “I have to watch this now not because I want to see it in the right order but because I think the person telling me might be wrong”?

If they couldn’t trust that person who told them I have to ask, “Why should I?”

If they got this order from one of Joss’ people, the only ones who know the correct one, then why didn’t they come out and say it’s official? Why say “The changes were due to speculation not just by ourselves, but with the feedback on this thread,” and not just, “This is the correct order straight from Joss’ guys”?

It might have become apparent to you that at this point I’m more confused with how the person at Sci Fi UK responded than I am about the episode order. It just seems like they took the absolute strangest way to say what they said, and that makes me doubt what they’re saying.

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